GS2.0: Effects of French Armistice on Italy's entry into war

[ferokapo]

Just to make sure I understand correctly (and don't get a nasty surprise):

1. If the Germans accept the armistice, Vichy France is created as normal, and the French Navy does not count anymore for determining Allied presence in the Med. Therefore, Italy immediately enters the war if no British units are present.

2. If the Germans reject the armistice, all remaining units will become Free French under UK control. French Navy still counts for determining Allied presence in the Med.

If 1. is true, is this intended? It would mean that an early capture of Paris would give the Axis a big headstart in the fight for Egypt.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

This is correct and this is intended. It means Britain will have to be careful about where to use their navy.

It's not easy taking Paris earlier than Spring 1940 and Italy joins normally in June anyway. If you lose Paris early you will decide to either use the Royal Navy to prevent Sealion or to keep Italy out of the war longer.

Mussolini was an opportunist. He only DoW'ed the Allies once it was apparent that France would fall. So if Germany can achieve this earlier then Mussolini would be more inclined to join earlier as well, unless the Royal Navy is strong in the Mediterranean.

[rkr1958]

1. If the Germans accept the armistice, Vichy France is created as normal, and the French Navy does not count anymore for determining Allied presence in the Med. Therefore, Italy immediately enters the war if no British units are present. .

This is basically correct. To be precise, the French navy doesn't count because it no longer exists. All French units, including their navy, are removed from the game the moment the axis player accepts the armistice. Also, Vichy France is created. Vichy units don't show, or spawn, until the allies declare war on Vichy France. Note that a Vichy Syria is a special case in that it can be invaded (DOW by the allies) and conquered without activiating the rest of Vichy France. However; the reverse is NOT true. If Vichy Syria still exists at the time the allied player invades, say Vichy North Africa, then Syria will also activiate on the side of the axis.

2. If the Germans reject the armistice, all remaining units will become Free French under UK control. French Navy still counts for determining Allied presence in the Med.

If 1. is true, is this intended? It would mean that an early capture of Paris would give the Axis a big headstart in the fight for Egypt.

Yes and yes. Historcially, Mussolini entered the war after France was on the ropes in order to get his share of the spoils. So the effect of an early entry because the French navy is no longer a threat (i.e., armistice) and there's an insufficient UK naval presence in the Med was the intention. The prospect of an early fall of France does present some interesting choices for the allied player. Again, this is by design.

[rkr1958]

Borger,

We both posted responses at the same time. Well, at least to the nearest minute.

It's good to know that our two responses are consistent.

[ferokapo]

Thanks for the quick reply. This is indeed poses some "interesting choices" for both the Allies and the Axis...

[Plaid]

Actually common use of RN BBs early in game is "stay in British ports and do nothing". They can do same in MED just as good. Even if you have to repel sealion there is little profit from RN, since if Sealion properly planned all what your BBs would do is bumping into german subs just to be pounded by bombers next turn.

[ferokapo]

Actually common use of RN BBs early in game is "stay in British ports and do nothing". They can do same in MED just as good. Even if you have to repel sealion there is little profit from RN, since if Sealion properly planned all what your BBs would do is bumping into german subs just to be pounded by bombers next turn.

Well, that´s not how I play the RN. The RN can be a nuisance for the Axis by bombarding land units, searching for subs, extendings air cover in France, escort convoys and troop transports. My RN rarely stays in port. If the RN activity means only one turn delay of Barbarossa in total, I´m fine with the cost-benefit relation...

But I see another problem with the current rules: As Axis, I would not reject the armistice, because if I reject it, I would have no chance to contest Allied presence in the Med. If you add the French Navy to the British one, I think the Axis would have no chance whatsoever in the Med. Plus, if you accept the armistice, then the French Navy disappears and Italy immediately enters the war (if no RN is present).

But that´s just my speculation, haven´t been a beta tester, and my current games has not yet progressed that far...

[Peter Stauffenberg]

One reason to reject the French Armistice offer is if the French have been careless with the air unit (destroyed) and navy (some sunk). THEN you can reject the offer and try to get enough units across to western Libya so you can rush towards Casablanca. Once you get all the ports in Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia then Spain will join the Axis. You can then take Gibraltar and if you at the same time had rushed towards Port Said you can close off the Med to the Allies.

GS v2.0 is designed on purpose so rejecting the French armstice offer is risky unless the Allies have lost units they shouldn't have lost. Because you can risk the Germans rejecting the armistice offer it means the French BB's will probably not bombard German units. The reason is that the BB's can be bombarded by tac bombers and sunk by subs. The French Maginot garrisons rarely attack the Germans anymore because as long as they're intact the Germans will be more likely to accept the armistice.

So the main reason to have this offer is to make it riskier for the Allies to sacrifice the French units just before Paris falls.

Playtesting has shown that this works well.