Qin Chinese

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:50 am

Anyone used the Qin Chinese with Impact Foot/Crossbow mix?

Interested to see how it works out.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:55 am

Effective range 4MU, charge range 4MU. Not going to work. Also see other thread about XBow not being very good.

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:58 am

philqw78 wrote:Effective range 4MU, charge range 4MU. Not going to work. Also see other thread about XBow not being very good.

That's a pretty negative attitude.

They don't have to charge all the time. There are many instances where they don't have to even TEST to not charge.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:23 am

Yes* there are, but (comparing to other impact foot) what is more useful, a second rank of fighting troops or a chance of shooting not very well. If you wanted a charging army this is not, IMO, it.
If you want Qin
The Hvy Wpn version is not shock, can make better use of PO and can be armoured, so will get to shoot and after impact fight at evens or plus against everyone.

* that wasn't negative

The rest may have been

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:27 am

philqw78 wrote:Yes* there are, but (comparing to other impact foot) what is more useful, a second rank of fighting troops or a chance of shooting not very well. If you wanted a charging army this is not, IMO, it.
If you want Qin
The Hvy Wpn version is not shock, can make better use of PO and can be armoured, so will get to shoot and after impact fight at evens or plus against everyone.

* that wasn't negative The rest may have been

Phil, have you used the Qin Chinese with Impact Foot/Crossbow mix?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:33 am

Nope. I have used the HW version a number of times though and have had no match up where I thought that the IF version would have performed better, but many where they would have been worse off.

They would work against other Warring states armies

ravenflight · Post by **ravenflight** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:40 am

philqw78 wrote:Nope.

Right - thanks.

Has anyone used the Qin Chinese with Impact Foot/Crossbow mix?

ShrubMiK · Post by **ShrubMiK** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:05 pm

No, not used them. And no, IF/xbow combination wouldn't be my preferred option either.

One thing though...the second rank of "non fighting troops" is only a liability in close combat after bases have been lost (okay, so I'm ignoring scenarios where you have been charged in the rear! or wish for some reason to fight in one rank).

So until a base is lost they will be as effective at charging inf as pure impact foot. And more effective in receiving a cav charge than pure impact foot. Plus some extra shooting as a bonus. Pros and cons.

HW for the front rank still seems like it would generally be a better option though.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:33 pm

ravenflight wrote:
philqw78 wrote:Nope.
Right - thanks.

Has anyone used the Qin Chinese with Impact Foot/Crossbow mix?

Sounds like you may be the first! And it has the benefit that the weapons are, presumably, the same. So you can always change to using the HW version.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:39 pm

ravenflight wrote:Has anyone used the Qin Chinese with Impact Foot/Crossbow mix?

I have not. Looked at it.

I suspect the theory is that the xb shoot at mounted and aid when the mounted impact into you.

The Impact foot gives you a chance to win versus many foot in impact.

The weakness is the impact foot can get pulled out of position by trying to chase enemy foot.

jonphilp · Post by **jonphilp** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:41 pm

Hi ,

I have had some succcess with mixed Armoured HW/CB battlegroups for the Warring States (against Classical Indians & surprisingly Principate Romans ). However I tend to use these battlegroups for their firepower to pin opponents, whilst using other troops to force a decision. I find most opponents are wary of the HW and the CB are useful at impact in the support shooting . However as stated before once the front rank takes losses they can degrade very quickly. I have never taken the Qin option as they appear to be fragile especially as a "shock" battlegroup. I tend to use the Tribal allies in this role as the complete battlegroup is classed as Impact Foot /Swordsmen. I just wish the Qin list enabled all the various types of mixed battlegroups to be used not just the Impact Foot/CB option. I understand the concept behind the impact close combat foot battlegroups but I am not sold on the idea that the "ranged " units would follow the same pattern or indeed that they all lost their armour !