Something Odd About Battle Outcomes

[AgentX]

I've noticed something really odd about how battles are resolved. For an example, say I'm starting my turn and attack an enemy. I get exactly what the odds state and get a normal hit. Now, the next attack, I get what I'll call a "dud". Where the odds say I should get 4 hits, 0 losses, but I don't get a single hit. OK, I don't like that outcome, so I reload. Here's where it gets weird. The exact same thing happens: a normal hit, followed by a dud. To change it up, I can pick a different unit for the second attack and pick a completely different enemy unit; however, I still end up with a dud. Doesn't matter what unit or what enemy.

And this pattern can go on an entire turn. Normal hit, followed by a dud, then another dud, and then an overwhelming attack. Reload the game and the exact same pattern will happen. It's almost like all the dice rolls and odds are happening at the start of the turn and the outcomes are already set. I would think that the dice rolls should be made during each individual battle so they are more random. Since I save and reload a lot, I see the patterns and then make my attacks based on that info. So, if my second and third hits are going to be duds, no matter what I do, I then just tend to waste them on attacks on a non essential targets (like taking a fighter to attack some far off city). I really shouldn't have to do this, though. You would think each battle is independent and have it's own dice roll, so if I reload and try again, I should get different outcomes each time.

Or, am I missing something? Is this in place so you can't get rid of the eventual duds by constantly reloading your saves until you get better outcomes? Guess that makes sense, but makes you wonder if there's a better way.

[Razz1]

They call it RNG for random Generated number.

However I see the same pattern.

3 turns or so normal and then one turn I get one good hit and the rest are duds.

It's ok to have random outcomes but I agree... way to many off the chart outcomes where your odds are overwhelming yet nothing happens.

Worse yet you have overwhelming odds and get a loss in strength.

It's really bad as the Allies.

[OmegaMan1]

way to many off the chart outcomes where your odds are overwhelming yet nothing happens.

I've noticed this as well. While I haven't witnessed it occur in a pattern, I've had my share of combats where I'll be quoted something like 6 damage defender/0 damage attacker, and when I attack, nothing happens. This has occurred for me as both Axis and Allies, in both multiplayer and single player games.

[IainMcNeil]

I've seen this but only when artillery supported a unit and I could not see them so the odds were reported badly as i did not have all info.

[Obsolete]

Alright, it's official. We should ban all lottery ticket winners from winnings, because despite the fact this is random, their odds of winning are so lopsided, they should NEVER be allowed to win...

Beating a dead horse here again.

[grabbysnatch]

This has happened to me few times too, but I thought it was just random and referred to the unknown possibilities and bad luck that sometimes just happens.

[Rudankort]

Random seed is stored as part of the saved game, and so after reload the battle will play exactly the same as long as you do the same actions. However, if the order of actions is different, outcomes will be different too.

[AgentX]

Random seed is stored as part of the saved game, and so after reload the battle will play exactly the same as long as you do the same actions. However, if the order of actions is different, outcomes will be different too.

Rudankort, here's the thing, though. I don't seem to get different results. In my example, the four attacks (normal hit, followed by two duds and then a overwhelming attack) are preordained no matter what order of action I do. So, on the "dud" attacks, I can attack an unentrenched infantry with a tank, attack fighter on fighter, artillery on entrenched infantry, or any other number of attacks. It doesn't matter what order I do them in, they will be duds. I can even change the first target attacked during the normal attack, but I will get the same pattern: normal hit, two duds, then overwhelming attack. Now, that is just one example, but the patterns seem to be set at the beginning of the turn and different actions don't seem to change the outcomes. I wish it was more random and attacking different targets would change the patterns up somewhat. Like I said, though. When I see the pattern and know when the duds are going to happen, I tend to waste the attack on an unessential target.

[Rudankort]

Well, if the combats were totally random, you could just reload until you get favorable outcome in any battle you want. I don't see the difference. If you reload, you always get a benefit. We have some means to fight with that in multiplayer, but in single player you are on your own and can do anything you want.

[Kerensky]

Personally, I like this system. Good alternative to save load save load your way to victory.
Although I'm sort of curious how this will affect leader acquisition. That part about PG2 really annoyed me because it almost required save load, or you might end up with recon movement on a unit with transport, which breaks the game because that unit can no longer use its transports.

I hope PzC has a 'promotion' system.
If your unit has a chance to gain a leader, you are present with a choice.

Let's say Tiger I got a leader.
You receive a pop up window or some sort of interface that says:
Individual members of this unit have performed excellently, you now have the option to promote one of these outstanding men (or woman? that choice would be fantastic) to unit commander.
Do you promote Hanz, who is adept at tank hunting (+2 HA, +1 GD)
Or do you promote Heinrich, who is skillful at maneuvering (+1 unit speed)
Or do you promote Lindorf, who is skillful at close combat (+2 close defense)

For instances where this event occurs on the enemy turn, I would say allow the player to choose their appropriate leader when it becomes their turn again, and the pop up window appears when they player selects the relevant unit with a mouse click.

[Razz1]

Wait a minute... don't forget about:

Klavdiya Kalugina, skillful as sniper +1 range

[Iscaran]

That promotion system of yours is indeed a nice idea Kerensky and something that has not been seen in any previous PG series !

I am though undecided if it may be too strong a feature for players to be able to "choose" promotions from a list. Or do you intend to offer only a limited list where some abilities are chosen randomly ?

I do not see any benefit of a "fixed" random seed generator - rather make it really "random" on every fight.

And ppl which save/reload will workaround any system in place either by remembering the "random" pattern and reload as the OP explained or they save after every fight and reload if result is unfavourable in case you have random seeds calculated for every single fight instead.

IMO save/reload ppl miss the whole point of playing strategy games - but then its their fun they miss.

But I really somehow dislike the idea of a random seed pattern to be save with the game and come up every time you should reload a scenario start save, as that actually happens a lot for me.
For me it is like this, I play a scenario and AFTER I loose (or think I loose) I reload from my scenario start save and see if I can make any better.

[Dragoon24]

I hope PzC has a 'promotion' system.
If your unit has a chance to gain a leader, you are present with a choice.

Let's say Tiger I got a leader.
You receive a pop up window or some sort of interface that says:
Individual members of this unit have performed excellently, you now have the option to promote one of these outstanding men (or woman? that choice would be fantastic) to unit commander.
Do you promote Hanz, who is adept at tank hunting (+2 HA, +1 GD)
Or do you promote Heinrich, who is skillful at maneuvering (+1 unit speed)
Or do you promote Lindorf, who is skillful at close combat (+2 close defense)

For instances where this event occurs on the enemy turn, I would say allow the player to choose their appropriate leader when it becomes their turn again, and the pop up window appears when they player selects the relevant unit with a mouse click.

I second this, it seems very interesting and appropriate and add a lot of feel when you think of great tank commanders like Wittman, Lafayette Pool, Ion Lazarevich Degen, etc.
Also I wonder if a unit could get multiple leaders representing a true Panzer Ace's crew.

[Razz1]

We don't want a super indestructible unit.

Right now the game and units are close to balanced, but a leader with those abilities may be way too strong.

Plus 1 should be more than enough to effect battle outcomes.