Commanding out shot

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Tue May 31, 2011 5:36 pm

When looking at later 5+1 pike and shot regiments if I want to command out shot to create a shot only unit is something like this legal:

If I have 2 5+1 units can I reform them into a a 6+2 and a 4 shot unit?

If so what formation does the 6+2 unit fight in?

(S=shot, P=pike)

SSSS
SPPS

Would seem to be the one analagous to the original 5+1 or something else?

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue May 31, 2011 6:17 pm

Per a quick read of page 33 I think you would have to deploy it as 2 files of 3 shot, one each side of a file of 2 pike.

hood_mick · Post by **hood_mick** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:01 pm

Even better, as the rules stand it would have to be 4 files, 3 shot 2 single pike and then 3 more shot. Top left page 183; ''battle groups cannot adopt a formation with pike deeper than they would have been in the original battle groups unless all shot have been detached.''

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue May 31, 2011 7:21 pm

hood_mick wrote:Even better, as the rules stand it would have to be 4 files, 3 shot 2 single pike and then 3 more shot. Top left page 183; ''battle groups cannot adopt a formation with pike deeper than they would have been in the original battle groups unless all shot have been detached.''

Good catch I did not see that. It also outlaws my idea of taking the 4S+2P and creating a 2S+4P to face the early keils

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:42 pm

hood_mick wrote:Even better, as the rules stand it would have to be 4 files, 3 shot 2 single pike and then 3 more shot. Top left page 183; ''battle groups cannot adopt a formation with pike deeper than they would have been in the original battle groups unless all shot have been detached.''

Which, as it then cannot meet the formation requirements of p33, could mean such a BG cannot be created - as, IIRC, the new BGs must comply with the normal rules on BG composition

Delbruck · Post by **Delbruck** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:57 pm

From an historical perspective I don't think there is much rational for detaching shot in the last half of the 17th century.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:34 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
hood_mick wrote:Even better, as the rules stand it would have to be 4 files, 3 shot 2 single pike and then 3 more shot. Top left page 183; ''battle groups cannot adopt a formation with pike deeper than they would have been in the original battle groups unless all shot have been detached.''

Which, as it then cannot meet the formation requirements of p33, could mean such a BG cannot be created - as, IIRC, the new BGs must comply with the normal rules on BG composition

So could you shift 2 shot to another unit?
Giving you:
7 Shot+1 Pike
3 shot + 1 Pike

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:51 am

hazelbark wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:
hood_mick wrote:Even better, as the rules stand it would have to be 4 files, 3 shot 2 single pike and then 3 more shot. Top left page 183; ''battle groups cannot adopt a formation with pike deeper than they would have been in the original battle groups unless all shot have been detached.''

Which, as it then cannot meet the formation requirements of p33, could mean such a BG cannot be created - as, IIRC, the new BGs must comply with the normal rules on BG composition
So could you shift 2 shot to another unit?
Giving you:
7 Shot+1 Pike
3 shot + 1 Pike

I don't believe so as you are required to create an all shot unit.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:51 am

Delbruck wrote:From an historical perspective I don't think there is much rational for detaching shot in the last half of the 17th century.

As long as there are pike in the unit it has issues in terrain.