game more deadly?

dopffer · Post by **dopffer** » Fri May 20, 2011 5:56 pm

Since the release of the new patch I found the game to be more deadly.
I think two cohesion levels dropping are more easy than before : I got a lot of D to R since, for example with relatively intacts units.
Someone saw that or I'm making false ideas?

Xiggy · Post by **Xiggy** » Mon May 23, 2011 5:12 pm

I have not seen that. Could be just a string of really bad dice.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Mon May 23, 2011 5:13 pm

Just bad luck I think - nothing related to this has changed so I dont see how it could have happened.

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:28 pm

I am noticing the same thing. Brand new unit goes in and routs very quickly. It must be related to the updates as it never happened at all before other than if a unit was hit in the rear.

If it is somehow NOT due to the code being changed then it is a pain in the rear end and should be looked into. The units should be able to make it to the Melee phase. Impact should not cause a rout of a fresh unit.

CaptainHuge · Post by **CaptainHuge** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:05 pm

I have found units breaking faster after the last patch too. I have also seen units go straight to routing.

deeter · Post by **deeter** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:44 pm

I too have noticed that it's now common for units to go from fresh to fragged in one combat. It was always possible before but extremely rare.

Deeter

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:15 pm

Noticing this too - occurs far more since the last patch. Of course that may simply mean this is how it should have been from the start. I kinda like the uncertainty and it is making me play more with a view to getting as many positive modifiers for potential cohesion tests than I've done previously.

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:23 pm

Anything that takes AWAY from the randomness of this already RANDOM-fest works for me. And this new mod does NOT.

I vote that it gets removed. Whatever was changed needs to be taken out or frankly I am done playing the game. It just ruins the game if when you make an Impact hit your line falls apart. Impact is impact - not melee. It is the initial clash of spears. I guess what may have been going through the minds of the development team was that some folks toss cheap units at better units to tie them down. Yes, that occurs but the unit is usually toast anyway in the next round.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:19 pm

I have not noticed this at all.....units are getting fragged at impact maybe once/twice a game and its usually when an average troop that shouldnt be in close combat anyways gets slammed by a lancer or knight....

I think for Slitherine to really take a serious look at this players who are noticing a change need to give more specific data on what they are observing or screenies (although that is sometimes hard to do)

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:27 pm

But how to compare it to something in the past? I do not have results from the older update to compare it with so that they have "data" - I think that based on the reports here it should be something that the team takes up.

Bottom line: I was ready to shell out for the rest of the modules. Now I will probably take my money elsewhere unless it changes. Ridiculous to see a fresh unit go into combat and on the same turn take a 3 step loss in morale.

And as far as the "class" matchup goes how in the world are light infantry with their friggin backs to a lake holding off three times the amount of troops? Light infantry in this game are beating up on Knights. I am now wondering what good use Knights are for in the series. Richard the Lionhearted must be turning over in his grave at this point.

Yes, knights were beaten by bowmen and so on but that was when they were protected, not when they were fighting them in the open with no cover.

Anyway, the main thing here is that I cannot go back to an earlier game, pull out data, because those updates have been superceded. Any new data would just be "well it has happened before" and pooh pooh'd away. I mean, that is fine, if a developer wants to take that tack I understand. And I can take my bucks and head elsewhere.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:28 pm

No code related to this has been changed - no idea how it can have happened or what the fix would be if it has!

A unit cannot drop 3 morale levels in one combat unless some other factor feeds in like a routing unit, general killed, hit in rear etc.

If you have a game where this occurred and you're sure it occured we can take a look. Please be sure there are no other factors feeding in.

Old_Warrior · Post by **Old_Warrior** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:37 pm

The next time this happens I will halt the game and let you know which one it is in my "queue" and maybe you have the ability of pulling it up. I will also tell you the units involved and the battle outcome - screenshot can be posted here I think or I could upload it and set a link in the thread. It is happening ALOT and needs to be stopped.

Units on either side are fresh, no dead leader, no hit in flank, just a plain old frontal attack on a unit on level ground, not behind a river, not behind stakes, etc.

Really getting to be annoying that this is happening something like once every other turn.

Lysimachos · Post by **Lysimachos** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:44 pm

I've noticed too that frontal attack leads now to a fragmented status with a little higher percentage than before.
That's all - having never seen a steady unit routing at impact - and, in my opinion, doesn't alter this good game in any appreciable way.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:08 am

Getting fragnmented is fine - thats allowed. Routing on contact is not possible and a bug, unles some other factor is feeding in. If you see this please report it. Going fragmented is just part of the game so a save of this wont show us anything.

Xiggy · Post by **Xiggy** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:23 pm

I find it interesting that if I charge a unit and it drops to disordered, then I can charge it in the rear the same turn it goes to fragged and can break.

But if I charge it in the rear first, it can drop to fragged, but will never break if I subsequently charge it to front in the same turn. That is kind of odd.

If you charge a unit with 1, 2 ,3 ,4 units from front or flank it can drop a max of 2 levels unless it is forced to route due to falling below a mandatory strength route level.

I have not by the way seen anything different in the last few patch levels as far as units dieing quicker.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:01 pm

Xiggy wrote:I find it interesting that if I charge a unit and it drops to disordered, then I can charge it in the rear the same turn it goes to fragged and can break.

But if I charge it in the rear first, it can drop to fragged, but will never break if I subsequently charge it to front in the same turn. That is kind of odd.

If you charge a unit with 1, 2 ,3 ,4 units from front or flank it can drop a max of 2 levels unless it is forced to route due to falling below a mandatory strength route level.

I have not by the way seen anything different in the last few patch levels as far as units dieing quicker.

Well this is my understanding and i could be wrong... A unit only tests for cohesion once per CAUSE... There are multiple causes for testing , and some things dont require a test for a cohesion drop and are automatic

So.. if you lose an impact you test cohesion level : one "cause"
if you lose a combat "badly"( receive 2 or more hits than give) : that is a seperate cause
leader in the Bg dies another, adjacent to a leader dying or seeing an adjacent friend rout , two more causes....

getting hit in the rear(legal rear hit) or having a router burst thru arnt causes to test but are automatic

i guess what i am getting at is there appears to be several unlikly but plausible scenarios where a unit could rout in one turn, although it is quite rare

What im not sure is this following example:

its A turn, he charges an enemy BG B and wins the combat by one dice, b rolls for the CT (rolls a three) and drops a level... Then A charges a second unit in and wins "big" (2 more hits than rec.)..... since winning "big" changes the modifier for testing (-1), and Bg b retains the dice roll of three, the unit would have to test again as the modifed roll is a 2 which , if from losing big, causes 2 cohesion drops...

So, would unit B thus drop another 2 cohesion levels (and rout)??? I have seen fresh units rout from muliple impacts but usually assumed was from %lost , ie autoroute....
Would it drop just another ( highly doudt it , have never scene this)

hmmmmm....