Bayonet armed troops

david53 · Post by **david53** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:17 pm

Hi There

Checking my rules after a bit of a break into the ancient period, I've been looking at the Army List book Duty and Glory.

Late BGs of 5 musket armed troops with bayonet and 1 Pikeman. Now say they are charged by Mounted troops they would get a plus because of the Pike ie protected but nothing for the bayonet, unless the Pikeman is killed when the Bayonet factor comes in, is this correct?

Dave

Scrumpy · Post by **Scrumpy** » Fri May 13, 2011 8:21 pm

The Pikeman is rarely if ever killed, you would lose shot to any shooting casualties.

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:18 pm

I think it is impossible to lose the pike as you need to keep it to maintain the original ratios. The unit will auto break before the pike dies.
John

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:54 pm

But as they pay nothing for the bayonet if they are in a BG with pike......

MatteoPasi · Post by **MatteoPasi** » Sat May 14, 2011 10:22 am

The bayonette in pike supported unit apply only when units are figthing in 2 direction: on the side they lose the protection but stil have the bayonet

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Sat May 14, 2011 10:55 am

MatteoPasi wrote:The bayonette in pike supported unit apply only when units are figthing in 2 direction: on the side they lose the protection but stil have the bayonet

Good point. They also get to use them if they are detached.

MatteoPasi · Post by **MatteoPasi** » Sat May 14, 2011 11:53 am

rbodleyscott wrote:
MatteoPasi wrote:The bayonette in pike supported unit apply only when units are figthing in 2 direction: on the side they lose the protection but stil have the bayonet

Good point. They also get to use them if they are detached.

And when they are in column formation with shot in the first line

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sat May 14, 2011 11:54 am

I think it is impossible to lose the pike as you need to keep it to maintain the original ratios.

But if the pike were fighting at impact against a single base frontage BG - and lost - and then lost a base - surely the pike base would be removed?

And then the bayonets look good value.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Sat May 14, 2011 1:21 pm

petedalby wrote:
I think it is impossible to lose the pike as you need to keep it to maintain the original ratios.
But if the pike were fighting at impact against a single base frontage BG - and lost - and then lost a base - surely the pike base would be removed?

And then the bayonets look good value.

Thats what I was trying to get too, since I have a lot of 5 to 1 BGs seemed like a good question.

Just another thought same BG 5 Muskets/Bayonet and 1 Pike if its in melee and the one Pike base is armoured do you get 1 dice at plus against 5 dice at evens if the target was unarmoured?

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Sat May 14, 2011 7:06 pm

david53 wrote:
petedalby wrote:
I think it is impossible to lose the pike as you need to keep it to maintain the original ratios.
But if the pike were fighting at impact against a single base frontage BG - and lost - and then lost a base - surely the pike base would be removed?

And then the bayonets look good value.
Thats what I was trying to get too, since I have a lot of 5 to 1 BGs seemed like a good question.

Just another thought same BG 5 Muskets/Bayonet and 1 Pike if its in melee and the one Pike base is armoured do you get 1 dice at plus against 5 dice at evens if the target was unarmoured?

I suspect your opponent would get 4 bases at 4's and 2 bases needing 5's as one file would be facing armoured pike.

kevinj · Post by **kevinj** » Mon May 16, 2011 7:30 am

Actually hitting the Pike base in a 1+5 Pike and Shot BG is going to be tricky as normally it will be in the rear rank, see P33.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Mon May 16, 2011 7:49 am

kevinj wrote:Actually hitting the Pike base in a 1+5 Pike and Shot BG is going to be tricky as normally it will be in the rear rank, see P33.

Except when it isn't - when charging or charged by mounted enemy it can (and needs to) automove into the front rank so that the files all count as Protected.

Sorry, I don't have the rules with me so I cannot quote the page number, but it is in the Impact Phase section on formation changes when charging/charged.

kevinj · Post by **kevinj** » Mon May 16, 2011 8:13 am

Thank you, yes that's on Page 75.

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Mon May 16, 2011 3:46 pm

I don't have my rules to hand either but I seem to recall the move to the front rank was optional. If the unit has bayonets why bother particularly if the opponent has better armour and a musketeer fights better than a pikemen.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Mon May 16, 2011 4:37 pm

marshalney2000 wrote:I don't have my rules to hand either but I seem to recall the move to the front rank was optional. If the unit has bayonets why bother particularly if the opponent has better armour and a musketeer fights better than a pikemen.

Mainly because Protected is a POA better than Bayonet vs Mounted.

(Protected cancels mounted POA and gives a POA vs mounted, Bayonet only cancels the mounted POA)