Slitherine please roll the releases back

davouthojo · Post by **davouthojo** » Sat May 07, 2011 7:18 am

I am not a coder, but I have run an internet business.

Clearly the latest changes are more complex than you thought. Can I suggest that you roll back your 1.5.1 to 1.5.5 patches to the last solid platform, than test everything thoroughly before doing another release?

Although this may inconvenience some customers (Italian ones?), your existing loyal customers would prefer this to issuing bug-ridden release after bug-ridden release to what used to be a rock-solid platform.

Many thanks - then we can get on enjoying our regular fix of your great game.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Tue May 10, 2011 1:04 pm

Hi

we're sorry there are issues with the latest version but we can't roll them back and the team are fixing them ASAP so we hope to minimize any disruption.

The issue is that no matter what we check there are isssues which are not appearing for us that are for customers. Without an extensive test proceedure which is simple not possible I don't now how we can guarante it wont happen again but we're always doing our best to minimize issues as it takes far more time to fix things post release so its better for us if we can fix them early - we don't need any extra incentive!

davouthojo · Post by **davouthojo** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:24 am

I remember this dilemma when we rolled new releases.

The management choice is : do I invest more team time in simulating the customer environment of multiple PC configurations pre-release or do I use my customer base to find bugs post-release?

What makes this balance hard to get right is that the cost of pre-release testing is easy to calculate. The cost of customer equity lost through experiencing a less than rock solid platform is harder to calculate.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:29 am

The issue is there is no money to do pre release testing. It's not a choice that has to be made. Only the programmers check the games - there are no QA staff at HexWar and we only have 2 here across all tehgames so the time spent on each one is limited. The choice is not to test the patches more or not. The choice is to stop releasing patches or not. Just trying to make it clwer how the economics of wargames works. Sadly the market is not like AAA games and as a result we don't have their resources.

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:58 am

Have you considered Beta testing the releases... rather than the Beta testing we are doing in the live environment?

This generally works well for new pack releases, so why not extend it to the non-trivial upgrades?

There certainly seems to be a whole bunch of people here who are generally willing to help.

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri May 13, 2011 1:46 pm

The 2 main issues are
1) The versions are not cross compatible so people cant play their multiplayer games so nobody wants to do it.
2) There are lots of these updates and changes are usually not very visible, except for new army packs. Testing means a lot of installing and uninstalling to get to the right version which is really no fun at all.

This means its only really viable when we have a major content update like an army pack where people really want to get their hands on the new stuff. When there are some under the hood changes nobody is interested in testing it out as they get nothing new and it just prevents them playing their MP games.

This is why we run betas for each new army pack but not patches.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:24 pm

Speaking of Beta's Iain, any idea of when the beta will start for the next exansion. Im guessing the target release date of 05/15 in the store area is off by a few weeks....

pantherboy · Post by **pantherboy** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:28 pm

To be honest I'm not really concerned about the bugs that have been showing up. If everyone simply reports their issues as concisely as possible then we can get the ball rolling faster towards a more stable environment. This game is a lot of fun and has even more potential in the future but this requires a small team of staff to develop. The cost of the game is peanuts to purchase if indexed to its play time. You go to the local pub for a couple of pints and you've paid for an expansion. Go see a movie for two hours and come out dropping $20 plus when the drinks and popcorn are added. I remember this game in its infancy and what we have now is a whole different animal moving slowly towards an ever more polished product. As Machiavelli pointed out in the Prince it is human nature to only remember the negatives rather than all the positives that preceeded it. If you wish to govern well he advised not to reduce taxes when there was a surplus in the treasury thus gaining the favor of the populace and then hiking taxes when an emergency arose until passed but rather maintain the same tax level throughout the period so that taxes need not be raised to handle the crisis as the treasury would have sufficient funds. In both instances the net cost to the population would be equal but in the first case people only remember how terrible their lord is for raising taxes though they'd been given tax breaks for so long and in the second case no one would be any the wiser and feel no ill feeling as they hadn't had anything taken away from them. The way this relates to now is that if slitherine just made a product and did little after then everyone would be happy but since they do so much for us we focus only on the problems that arise (e.g. the bugs). We wouldn't have the game that we play today unless they had decided to go against what Machiavelli preached and as such suffering through these glitches is a small price to pay for the continued growth of the game. If slitherine was a giant games company then we may have different expectations but for what resources they have at their disposal they are doing a tremendous job. Slitherine understands that this game has more potential and that it has greater potential for earning them revenue thus they are committed to the product and as such they would never endanger it but make the best with what they have to bring us what we want. As such I hope everyone stands by them and endures any trials that may come in the future.

I'll get off my soap box now.

Cheers,

Steve

PS: This post is not in reference to any specific posting or thread but rather as a general opinion I have about slitherines operations and as such I hope no one takes offense.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:39 pm

In deferance to the point PB made about only remembering the bad and not the good, after reading the above all I can remember is how much I hate taxes, Machiallvelli (what a poser) and soap

Seriously though, good post and I agree

BTW what pub do you frequent? 4 hours in my local bar costs me at least two expansions worth of cash

pantherboy · Post by **pantherboy** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:42 pm

Actually one night in a British pub here in Japan sets me back the cost of the game plus all expansions

That is why I'm posting now rather than drinking

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri May 13, 2011 4:57 pm

Thanks for the support. We know its not the ideal way but it's this way or no way.

Hexwar are a little behind on the expansion due to other tasks so I have not seen anything on Eternal Empire yet. I need to push the release date back as it wont be May unfortunately. I'm not sure how far back till I head from Keith but I'd guess at least mid June. I know they have a lot of the work done but its not all packaged up yet.

Morbio · Post by **Morbio** » Sat May 14, 2011 6:42 pm

I agree with you PB.... I've been mostly lucky that generally upgrades work well for me. I guess the problem is that when they don't for the very keen players (aka addicts

) then it just causes cold turkey and one of the symptoms is irritibility