Here what I see.
8.8 cm Pak 43/41 hard attack 23 initiative 14
8.8 cm Pak 36 hard attack 17 initiative 11
8.8 cm FlaK 36 [17] initiative 11
12.8 cm FlaK 40 [23] initiative 17
So the 88 can penetrate.
"Kill" is a matter of speech. It's not a one shot kill.
umm.. I would like confirmation on the -3
KV-2 initiative 9
What I see even with the penalty, some are equal, others exceed.
Balance issue Units
Moderators: Slitherine Core, The Lordz, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
What year does the Pak 43/41 become available? In Kursk I can still only buy the Pak 36.
By the way you're talking about trying to balance a unit that is super squishy and moves 1 hex at a time against a unit that moves 3 or 4 hexes and is armored to the teeth.
Regardless of Pak 36 or Pak 43/41, would you really want to buy such a unit in your offensive campaign when you see the defensive player has a KV-2 and several KV-1s?
Confirmation:
By the way you're talking about trying to balance a unit that is super squishy and moves 1 hex at a time against a unit that moves 3 or 4 hexes and is armored to the teeth.
Regardless of Pak 36 or Pak 43/41, would you really want to buy such a unit in your offensive campaign when you see the defensive player has a KV-2 and several KV-1s?
Confirmation:
Thanks for the confirmation.
And yes the Pack 36 is good better to have the Pak43/41.
Put them in a truck or AC and your good to go.
I just used the pack 5 and 8.8 in campaign 1941 3rd scenario.
Pushed back the T34's and killed them. It was tough as I only had one tank and one infantry.
After 5 turns reinforcements showed up. It the AT has support it is a good weapon. Especially if you have Art.
I admit I wasn't fighting KV's but that day will come.
Need to start some where, so GD at 22 is good.
That Kursk scenario..... Where did you get the extra planes and tanks?
You must be getting allot of Prestige per turn.
Kursk need 2 more AA and 2 fighter to balance it out.
Probably should start with one 85mm AA and one fighter and test that.
If they fix the supply issue that will help the USSR allot.
And yes the Pack 36 is good better to have the Pak43/41.
Put them in a truck or AC and your good to go.
I just used the pack 5 and 8.8 in campaign 1941 3rd scenario.
Pushed back the T34's and killed them. It was tough as I only had one tank and one infantry.
After 5 turns reinforcements showed up. It the AT has support it is a good weapon. Especially if you have Art.
I admit I wasn't fighting KV's but that day will come.
Need to start some where, so GD at 22 is good.
That Kursk scenario..... Where did you get the extra planes and tanks?
You must be getting allot of Prestige per turn.
Kursk need 2 more AA and 2 fighter to balance it out.
Probably should start with one 85mm AA and one fighter and test that.
If they fix the supply issue that will help the USSR allot.
I start Kursk with 3 fighters and 1 stuka, I did not purchase any additional air units.
I started with 800 prestige, but and most of my prestige comes from capturing (and recapturing) cities. I don't think my per turn injection is very high. I ended my latest turn with 14 prestige, I'll let you know how much I have at the start of my new turn.
I didn't buy any new tanks. Two IVFs that you killed almost immediately on the Western Front, I did buy those 2. The two tigers and three panthers I have are the ones I started with. You killed all three of my Marders, but I bought 1 or 2 nashorns at 198 a piece. Too bad your KV-1s tore right through their terribly low defense values.
I can't believe it, but I may actually win, even with your five or six near invulnerable and practically unkillable KV-1s.
I'll continue this discussion about Kursk in the Kursk thread, it's going a little off topic from this general unit balance thread.
EDIT: By the way, my 'per turn prestige injection' is 5 prestige. Almost all of my prestige income came from capturing cities.
I started with 800 prestige, but and most of my prestige comes from capturing (and recapturing) cities. I don't think my per turn injection is very high. I ended my latest turn with 14 prestige, I'll let you know how much I have at the start of my new turn.
I didn't buy any new tanks. Two IVFs that you killed almost immediately on the Western Front, I did buy those 2. The two tigers and three panthers I have are the ones I started with. You killed all three of my Marders, but I bought 1 or 2 nashorns at 198 a piece. Too bad your KV-1s tore right through their terribly low defense values.
I can't believe it, but I may actually win, even with your five or six near invulnerable and practically unkillable KV-1s.
I'll continue this discussion about Kursk in the Kursk thread, it's going a little off topic from this general unit balance thread.
EDIT: By the way, my 'per turn prestige injection' is 5 prestige. Almost all of my prestige income came from capturing cities.
@Razz1
Regarding hard attack for Panthers and Tiger I as well as for Pak 43/41 and Pak 36.
I rechecked (source tarrif.net) penetration table shows that results. Apparently velocity of those guns was bigger so they made more penetration.
Initiative is tied to barell length and Pak 43/41 was bigger piece than famous 88 anti-aircraft.
Regarding hard attack for Panthers and Tiger I as well as for Pak 43/41 and Pak 36.
I rechecked (source tarrif.net) penetration table shows that results. Apparently velocity of those guns was bigger so they made more penetration.
Initiative is tied to barell length and Pak 43/41 was bigger piece than famous 88 anti-aircraft.
the problem is an mentioned. Scenarios are harder campaign easy. In campaign you have experience and the KV's are allot easier.
I know they are working on adding experience for the AI in campaign so that would be great.
Hay whats up with artillery and bombers?
Does suppression stay for more than one turn?
I read allot of talk about doing this for Artillery.
Is suppression lasting more than one turn for bombers?
In our multi-player game the odds were two kills and zero for me.
I attacked three different times with same odds and did zero damage.
I know they are working on adding experience for the AI in campaign so that would be great.
Hay whats up with artillery and bombers?
Does suppression stay for more than one turn?
I read allot of talk about doing this for Artillery.
Is suppression lasting more than one turn for bombers?
In our multi-player game the odds were two kills and zero for me.
I attacked three different times with same odds and did zero damage.
One problem I've noticed is when bombing certain infantry like Russian engineers.
They have very high air-def, which often gives nonsensical results.
For example, attacking with Stukas often gives the Stuka an expectation of 0 or 1 kills against entrenched engineers, but the engineers are able to shoot down often 2 or more planes from the sky.
Either the air-defense on the engineers needs to be lowered, or we need to add in some other factors to the combat mechanics.
I fail to see any case where fast moving Stukas dive-bombing from the sky are going to lose more of their planes due to rifle-fire shot up in the air, than all the slow moving infantry below which are going to be blasted by high explosives.
They have very high air-def, which often gives nonsensical results.
For example, attacking with Stukas often gives the Stuka an expectation of 0 or 1 kills against entrenched engineers, but the engineers are able to shoot down often 2 or more planes from the sky.
Either the air-defense on the engineers needs to be lowered, or we need to add in some other factors to the combat mechanics.
I fail to see any case where fast moving Stukas dive-bombing from the sky are going to lose more of their planes due to rifle-fire shot up in the air, than all the slow moving infantry below which are going to be blasted by high explosives.
Experience Ratio = (def exp level + 2)/(att exp level + 2)
Entrenchment Ratio = (def entr rate + 1) /(att entr rate + 1)
Stuka will be defined as bomber moderately effective against vehicles and gun pieces. Infantry should be more persistent to it.
So high air defense for infantry is intentional. Problem is in ground defense for Stuka.
We want to avoid air units and especially bombers being ultimate killers that can clear the way in front of the land forces.
So high air defense for infantry is intentional. Problem is in ground defense for Stuka.
We want to avoid air units and especially bombers being ultimate killers that can clear the way in front of the land forces.
[quote]Makes you think, "Is that a key position I am will to take losses on?"[/quote]
No, it makes me think, "What's with these unrealistic results. What were they thinking?"
BTW...
The 8.8cm Flak seems to also be a total joke in the air role. Even the AI isn't afraid to drop bombs right on top of them.
No, it makes me think, "What's with these unrealistic results. What were they thinking?"
BTW...
The 8.8cm Flak seems to also be a total joke in the air role. Even the AI isn't afraid to drop bombs right on top of them.
Experience Ratio = (def exp level + 2)/(att exp level + 2)
Entrenchment Ratio = (def entr rate + 1) /(att entr rate + 1)
Previously AD were way to powerful, crippling in one shot and killing in two. The current version may be an 'over-nerf' that will need further adjustment, especially considering the killing power of Infantry with [1] air attack value compared to that of an AD unit.Obsolete wrote: BTW...
The 8.8cm Flak seems to also be a total joke in the air role. Even the AI isn't afraid to drop bombs right on top of them.
