Op fire weirdness and the "hot or cold" effect.

[Jonesy1760]

More game problems in BA.

Inf. in buildings should be invisible to arty and tanks unless tanks are shot at by the inf. or friendly inf. is in adjacent square.

Tanks that are suppressed can return fire?????

Inf. should not surrender to arty fire. Make them retreat.

Friendly units should not retreat TOWARDS enemy.

Tanks are suppressed way to easily. especially to mortar fire.

When tanks retreat they should NOT turn tail but reverse only.

Tanks should retreat from inf. attacks not surrender.

Inf. are to easily spotted in cover

Inf. unless in the open should not be seen by planes.

[PirateJock_Wargamer]

Not sure I'd call them problems, they are more like improvements

I think everybody is agreed reverse is a must have ... and from what Pip's said will be in the next update. I wonder when that will be ???

The items to do with infantry and cover could benefit from some tweaking, e.g. infantry in buildings should have a chance of not being spotted by tanks, carriers etc in adjacent adjacent squares dependant on unit's facing (higher chance if facing building - low/no chance if at rear of unit).

Other points I think are OK as is. For example, suppressed tanks get a single shot with greatly reduced chance of hitting, but the fact they will shoot is good as you might get a lucky shot and hit (not that I've seen one so far ) and it gives the firer something to think about ... will the shot drop my morale or possibly even destroy me?

Cheers

[Jonesy1760]

As a former M-60 Tanker in the USA Army we never reacted to mortar fire. Even under heavy arty fire we just moved away from it since it was so inaccurate. If you want suppressed results to a tank in this game just make it reverse but not turn tail...Tanks have REVERSE GEAR!!!

I have moved inf into building from the rear and all of a sudden the tank in front of the building fires on me....if the inf. fires at the tank then the tank can return fire.

Suppressed tanks should not shoot period...they are buttoned up and their brains are jangled!

[pipfromslitherine]

The next update includes the ability to reverse tanks.

Tanks firing when suppressed take all kinds of penalties, but they need to react to prevent them from being chased around the battlefield by units which could never hurt them.

It's also worth noting that the current logic is based on historical behaviours for WW2 - I have no doubt that things work differently in this age of ubiquitous airpower and support.

You can also rework the scripts if you desire to alter the behaviours into a more 'realistic' version. We obviously take some liberties in order to make the game more fun.

Cheers

Pip

[Jonesy1760]

Computer programming is what you get paid to do...We pay you for the game and you do the programming....Seems fair to me!?

[Jonesy1760]

Today a Tiger and a PZIV which had not fired in the previous phase which were not suppressed or retreating were run down by 3 Shermans.. There again was no defensive fire from the german tanks!!!

You guys have got to fix this!!!!!

[Jonesy1760]

Another non firing weapon...an 88mm ATG took no defensive fire at an approaching tank directly to its fron. It was at a 4 square range and the ATG had take no previous for nor had it fired in any previous turn. It was not suppressed or routed.

Come on guys..what is going on with this game????

[Jonesy1760]

I have seen this effect on many occasions...This ruins the whole historical aspect of this game...Turns it into a "fantasy" game...Get rid of those weird situations where someone can just work around the normal results of WWII combat!!!

[pipfromslitherine]

I'm not sure why nobody else is seeing these results (or I assume so, given we've not had any other reports). Are these in single or MP games? If in singleplayer games, then is there any way to get saves which can show the issue? If it is really that prevalent then it could be a very rare bug of some kind which is showing up on your machine only, I guess it's possible.

If you are in MP games, then it may be that the opposing player was using his hunting ability to avoid detection.

One possibility would be to use the editor to set up some situations which mirror the ones you saw, with the same types of unit, and see whether you see the same behaviour.

Cheers

Pip

[Jonesy1760]

All of these results were in MP games. Hunting mode should not make a tank or any other unit"invisible". I can see moving in this mode would give the firing unit a better chance to hit.
Also I have found that moving tanks have way to high a percent to hit..This should not happen with WWII vehicles....

[pipfromslitherine]

It's a game mechanic to mimic units not being spotted, or moving with deliberate care to avoid detection - and also with care to maintain accuracy. It might help to remember that the whole model is somewhat abstracted.

If you still think there are situations which are just too wrong then I would make up a quick example layout in the editor and let me have it, I can certainly double check everything is work as intended.

Cheers

Pip

[IainMcNeil]

Jonesy these things just dont happen in normal gameplay so something odd has happened or something is happening that you dont understand.

Could the units be holding fire? Have you approached from a flank or rear? Tanks do not react to the rear and have a small chance to react to the side. There are many factors feeding in to the model.

[Jonesy1760]

If i am mixxing something it sure is a weird and ahistorical way to model WWII combat!!!!

[soldier]

Jonesy, after one of my troops ambushed and shot up your 88, you complained that it wasn't shooting back and suddenly quit the game. Granted, some strange things happen occasionally in BA but you misinterpreted that incident

[Jonesy1760]

I did not see any point of continuing that game...You had won!!! CONGRATS!