I'm ok with that and I'll change my vote to yes on adding the two new cities in the end if that'll make the Norway more interesting and historical.I actually think we can add a rule saying that the Swedish iron ore is interdicted if a surface Allied naval unit is adjacent to a Norwegian city while Norway is neutral. This means the Germans have an incentive to invade Norway to secure the iron ore.
Please vote: Norway map update
Moderators: firepowerjohan, rkr1958, Happycat, Slitherine Core
Borger,
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Peter Stauffenberg
- General - Carrier
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
I like the idea of a possible interdiction of the swedish ore!
Then I would change my mind about my "no". Simply adding the cities do not seem right to me, as it will not make this theater more interesting. If the Allies can interdict the Swedish iron, then we speak of a complete new situation which could justify adding these cities.
I think you should make a new proposal open for voting concerning your new ideas.
Then I would change my mind about my "no". Simply adding the cities do not seem right to me, as it will not make this theater more interesting. If the Allies can interdict the Swedish iron, then we speak of a complete new situation which could justify adding these cities.
I think you should make a new proposal open for voting concerning your new ideas.
I support both.Stauffenberg wrote:Do you also support that the Swedish iron ore will also be interdicted if Trondheim is Allied controlled. That means the Germans will have to make sure the Allies don't get a foothold there.
Shall we increase the Swedish iron ore from 3 to 4 PP's when we make those changes?
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NotaPacifist
- Senior Corporal - Destroyer
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:48 am
Again, I'd like to draw attention to the exploitability of this kind of change.
turn 1: Germany attacks Oslo. Troops ashore. GAR's heading for Trondheim and Bergen. The one naval unit providing supply must be protected by almost all of the rest. Air attacks happen on Oslo GAR.
turn 1: British home guard sail for Trondheim and Bergen escorted by the RN. German transports sighted and sunk or heavily damaged.
turn 2: More air attacks on Oslo GAR, and two land attacks. Maybe Germany gets lucky, maybe it doesn't. In my case, 'doesn't' applies more often.
turn 2: The home guard lands in Trondheim and Bergen taking the place of evacuating Norwegian Gars.
I've been in this situation playing a guy named Frank. I was never able to destroy the GARS in Trondheim and Bergen despite committing two corps to each.
After this, securing Norway becomes a huge difficulty. I'll agree that the German invasion of Norway happened with a lot of luck. It also cost a heavy cruiser, an entire destroyer flotilla of 10 destroyers as well as many men.
But for very little expense, the Allies gain a tremendous early advantage. If the Home Guard can be frozen until England is invaded, then this could be seen as a fair option. If not, it's another spoiler. The only other change that would make playing the Axis worthwhile in this scenario would be to remove the two-airstrike limit against ground forces.
turn 1: Germany attacks Oslo. Troops ashore. GAR's heading for Trondheim and Bergen. The one naval unit providing supply must be protected by almost all of the rest. Air attacks happen on Oslo GAR.
turn 1: British home guard sail for Trondheim and Bergen escorted by the RN. German transports sighted and sunk or heavily damaged.
turn 2: More air attacks on Oslo GAR, and two land attacks. Maybe Germany gets lucky, maybe it doesn't. In my case, 'doesn't' applies more often.
turn 2: The home guard lands in Trondheim and Bergen taking the place of evacuating Norwegian Gars.
I've been in this situation playing a guy named Frank. I was never able to destroy the GARS in Trondheim and Bergen despite committing two corps to each.
After this, securing Norway becomes a huge difficulty. I'll agree that the German invasion of Norway happened with a lot of luck. It also cost a heavy cruiser, an entire destroyer flotilla of 10 destroyers as well as many men.
But for very little expense, the Allies gain a tremendous early advantage. If the Home Guard can be frozen until England is invaded, then this could be seen as a fair option. If not, it's another spoiler. The only other change that would make playing the Axis worthwhile in this scenario would be to remove the two-airstrike limit against ground forces.
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Peter Stauffenberg
- General - Carrier
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:13 pm
- Location: Oslo, Norway
First of all you need to see that the German invasion comes. It's not easy for the Allies to send their navy to Norway when Germany threatens to do Sealion. By having the navy near Norway it means the subs can sink convoys without worrying about escorts.
When I invade Norway I always invade with a paratrooper on Oslo and 2 tac bombers to deplete Oslo. You can land the units near Oslo and take out Oslo quickly. Then you can sail garrisons to Oslo and rail to the empty Norwegian cities. No need to risk sailing to Bergen and Trondheim.
You gain most hexes in Norway when Oslo falls and that means you can fly bombers and fighters to Norway to finish off any Allied garrisons in Bergen / Trondheim. Corps units can move from Oslo towards Bergen / Trondheim. You can with the air units punish Allied naval units if they remain there.
Since the Allies must actually put naval units adjacent / in Norwegian cities / ports it means it's not enough for the Allies to capture Bergen or Trondheim with an air or land unit to interdict the Swedish iron ore. You need naval units there. Those are nice targets for the Axis bombers.
So I think the invasion of Norway is not a problem if you do it properly. Focus upon Oslo and use a paratrooper to maximize the firepower towards Oslo. I usually take out Oslo on turn 2. On turn 1 I bombard with 2 tac bombers and land the paratrooper who can attack. 2 land units land south of Oslo. Oslo is repaired 3 steps and on turn 2 I bombard again with 2 tac bombers and attack with the 2 land units south of Oslo and finally with the paratrooper. That should be enough to take Oslo.
When I invade Norway I always invade with a paratrooper on Oslo and 2 tac bombers to deplete Oslo. You can land the units near Oslo and take out Oslo quickly. Then you can sail garrisons to Oslo and rail to the empty Norwegian cities. No need to risk sailing to Bergen and Trondheim.
You gain most hexes in Norway when Oslo falls and that means you can fly bombers and fighters to Norway to finish off any Allied garrisons in Bergen / Trondheim. Corps units can move from Oslo towards Bergen / Trondheim. You can with the air units punish Allied naval units if they remain there.
Since the Allies must actually put naval units adjacent / in Norwegian cities / ports it means it's not enough for the Allies to capture Bergen or Trondheim with an air or land unit to interdict the Swedish iron ore. You need naval units there. Those are nice targets for the Axis bombers.
So I think the invasion of Norway is not a problem if you do it properly. Focus upon Oslo and use a paratrooper to maximize the firepower towards Oslo. I usually take out Oslo on turn 2. On turn 1 I bombard with 2 tac bombers and land the paratrooper who can attack. 2 land units land south of Oslo. Oslo is repaired 3 steps and on turn 2 I bombard again with 2 tac bombers and attack with the 2 land units south of Oslo and finally with the paratrooper. That should be enough to take Oslo.
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Blathergut
- Field Marshal - Elefant
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