Please vote: Finland

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:17 am

I want your votes about the following.

1a. Increase the initial Finnish organization from 2 to 3
1b. Keep as is

2a. Increase the initial Finnish fixed defenses from 1 to 2
2b. Keep as is

3a. Increase the initial Finnish anti tank guns from 0 to 2
3b. Increase the initial Finnish anti tank guns from 0 to 1
3c. Keep as is

4a. Add 2 Finnish corps / 2 Russian corps
4b. Add 1 Finnish corps + 1 Finnish garrison / 1 Russian corps + 1 Russian garrison
4c. Add 1 Finnish corps / 1 Russian corps
4d. Add 1 Finnish garrison / 1 Russian garrison
4e. Keep as is

For 3 I think having Finnish anti-tank guns means that Russian can't easily use tanks in 1941 to overrun the Russians. The Finns fought well against Russian units on defense including tanks.

pk867 · Post by **pk867** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:58 am

Hi
1a
2a
3a
4d
Paul

Schnurri · Post by **Schnurri** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:32 pm

1a
2a
3a
4a

Doug

Blathergut · Post by **Blathergut** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:44 pm

all 'a'

schwerpunkt · Post by **schwerpunkt** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:46 pm

1a
2a
3b (Happy to try +1 for the time being but have no strong objections to 3a if thats the consensus)
4c

(Just rechecked http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Conti ... nglish.jpg and there are 4 finnish corps in the map area covered by CEAW (there is a fifth INF corps located in central Finland that I think is technically not within the scope of CEAW as per Stauffenberg's comments in the Underpowered Finns thread). Also, Gary Grigsby's recently released War in the East starts with 12 forward deployed Finnish divisions in the CEAW map area south of roughly Vaasa (there is a 13th division guarding the russian naval base at Hango, plus each city is protected by a strong independent brigade which I think equates to a GAR). WiTE does not cover the territory north of Vaasa so it provides no OOB for that theatre of operations.

With respect to the Russians, there were only three divisions deployed north of Lake Ladoga so the existing three GARs (including the one in Petrozavodsk) are fine. It could be argued though that the current GARs next to Leningrad are a little underdone as they were actually four divisions.
Hence, an extra russian Corps located at Leningrad doesnt look inappropriate, whilst the extra Finnish INF unit should go in hex 109,6 to give the Finns the continuous front line they actually had. I also suggest for the Finns that the VI corps GAR and II corps INF be switched as the Finns were forward deployed at the war's start.)

PS: I think options 4b and 4d dont add much value as GARs are useless in the northern theatre really, and from an historical perspective there isnt much support for either of them.

gerones · Post by **gerones** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:00 pm

My votes are the same as Neil.

PionUrpo · Post by **PionUrpo** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:06 pm

1a
2a
3b
4c

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:59 pm

My votes are:

1a. Increase the initial Finnish organization from 2 to 3

2a. Increase the initial Finnish fixed defenses from 1 to 2

3a. Increase the initial Finnish anti tank guns from 0 to 2

4e. Keep as is

BuddyGrant · Post by **BuddyGrant** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:31 pm

1a
2a
3a
4a

NotaPacifist · Post by **NotaPacifist** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:16 am

The biggest problem in voting for this is that once the Axis player has either isolated or taken Leningrad, his defence line ANYWHERE is augmented by these corps. Is there a way this can be determined by map location?

The Finns just weren't that into expanding their borders deep into the USSR.

zechi · Post by **zechi** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:24 am

1a
2a
3b
4e

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:48 am

NotaPacifist wrote:The biggest problem in voting for this is that once the Axis player has either isolated or taken Leningrad, his defence line ANYWHERE is augmented by these corps. Is there a way this can be determined by map location?

The Finns just weren't that into expanding their borders deep into the USSR.

You have to take into consideration that all minor powers will get techs that are 2 levels lower than their major power techs. So when Germany gets tech level 4 in fixed defenses then all Axis minors will get tech 2 in fixed defenses. So increasing the techs for Finland will give them a head start, but they will not advance past the at start tech until very late in the game. E. g. Germany will need to have fixed defenses tech 5 to increase the Finnish fixed defenses.

I guess Germany will have fixed defenses tech 4 in 1943 or so. That means Finland will mainly have the benefit in 1941-1942. This is the time they usually will fight close to Finland.

So I don't think we need to do anything to prevent the Finns from using the defense bonus outside their borders. We don't want to make the game more complicated than it is.

st14z · Post by **st14z** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:28 pm

All a's

Peter Stauffenberg · Post by **Peter Stauffenberg** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:35 am

I've done the following that's sent to Ronnie and Paul for alpha testing.

1. Organization increased to 3
2. Fixed defenses increased to 2
3. Antitank increased to 1
4. Added 1 Finnish and 1 Russian corps

KingHunter3059 · Post by **KingHunter3059** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:55 pm

Ok.

1a
2a
3a
4a

Please vote: Finland

Please vote: Finland

Re: Please vote: Finland