Art Request

[Kerensky]

Skins for units. Or at least some way for modders to reskin unit models.
Like a PNG overlay that the game will read and place over unit models.

Basically this sort of thing, that one panther that is all camo colored:


Snow camo skins, urban skin, forest skin, and the ability to create custom skins for units as well.

[adherbal]

I'm afraid "reskinning" 2D units is not as simple as overlapping it was some image. Unless I'm not getting what you ask for?

[Kerensky]

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the units in PzC are 3D?

So we decided to stick to classic 2D unit cards, however we gave the 2D unit cards a modern approach by using 2011 3D technology behind it.

So a 3D unit skin would look like


However, if PzC is a 2D unit, then it is as simple as overlapping an image on top.
I did this in five minutes (and it looks like I did it in five minutes) but I also lack any kind of formal training. With the right tools and know-how, this should be a no brainer.

Current:

"2D Reskin"

The random image I decided to use:


What would be required is the precise 'cut out' of each unit that this overlay would apply to.
For example, these three are the shapes for the PZIII, ME-109, and PZ II, from top to bottom.

Whatever overlay you choose would fill in this unit 'shape' and be pasted on top of the corresponding unit.

[adherbal]

If you overlap a unit with a semi-transparent image like that it's gonna result in low contrast and that's never going to look good. You can't skin a 2D unit, you have to adjust the image itself. That requires photoshop or some other graphics tool to get any good results.

[Kerensky]

I'll admit I'm no art expert.

We have seen the SS panther showing up though, this fellow:


So to reword my request:

It's definitely possible to adjust the 2D unit images, what I'm asking for is for the game to be designed in a way that promotes and encourages user customization, granted that the user has the right tools and the right know-how.

Basically, since you guys can clearly change the appearance of units or 'reskin' them in a sense, I would like to have that option open to the general player base as well so we can easily create and modify our own images like as a mod.


On a semi-related note, how open will PzC be to equipment mods? Like Latin Generals mod for Pz2 for example, those sorts of things? People may want to re-create different eras on the PzC engine, how easy/acceptable would that kind of moding be?

[adherbal]

Basically, since you guys can clearly change the appearance of units or 'reskin' them in a sense, I would like to have that option open to the general player base as well so we can easily create and modify our own images like as a mod.

yep, and it's as simple as a levels adjustement layer on top of a set with linear light dots for brightness with "color" blended grey dots for the correct colour on top of linear light green, red/brown camouflage patterns and "color" blended beige wheels, all on a base of a linear light layer to get the base beige recolouring of the grey default unit skin.

Do you want us to include photoshop with the game and sell it for $3539.99?


Using a simple "overlay" like you suggest, it would look somewhat like this:


PNG is a universal image format that can be edited in any decent GFX tool. I don't see why we would have to supply any such tool with our game? Not to mention spend time writing it

[Kerensky]

I think there's a little bit of misunderstanding and I apologize for that.

granted that the user has the right tools and the right know-how.

The word 'Granted' in this context means the user already possesses the right tools. Not that you the developers will create and provide it. Does that make sense?

What I am talking about is the difference between a system where the PNG files are open, accessible, and mod-able so that the players need only to have their own GFX editing tool to get to work creating their own camouflage 'skins' and even entirely new units versus a system where all the game files and PNG files are locked away in an encrypted .PAK file.

So it sounds like you do provide what I'm asking for. For the record, that simple overlay panther looks good to me. It could use a little work, the colors look a little too weak/dull as if the transparency was set too low, and some of the defining lines need to be made stronger at the same time, but that's almost passable. Granted the SS Das Reich unit of course looks a lot better by comparison, but then that simple overlay panther also looks a lot better than the stock grey panther. At least in my opinion.

VSVS

Additionally, there has to be measures in place to assure a healthy mod-able environment, but one that is also protected against abuse. For example, say I swapped my PNG files around so my Tigers look like PZ IA and my PZ IA look like Tigers. How would that affect multiplayer games? What would my opponent see? I don't know how your multiplayer systems work, but what if I'm hosting a game, will my switched PNG files display for everyone in the game? What if I create a PNG file that is 1000x1000 and use that to replace a unit in a deliberate attempt to either obscure the map or as a way of easily finding a certain type of enemy unit? If a unit is normally obscured by FOG, but I increase the PNG file of that certain unit by 1000x1000, will I be able to see that unit through the FOG because it's so big?

The point of this request is to:
1. Ensure the game is mod-able and customizable instead of being totally rigid. If it was totally rigid, people could not create their own units and visuals and all you would have is the stock game. Imagine Panzer General 2 if all there was in that game was the stock campaign with stock equipment files. No Latin Generals, no Alderkorp, no WW1 era campaigns, none of that. What a terrible, short-lived game that would have been.
2. Plan ahead against potential abuse that diminishes value of multiplayer games. Create and define strict structures with strong documentation that is available to the public that define what is allowed as a PNG. Units MUST be no larger than X by X in size. For any players to engage in multiplayer with a mod, both players MUST have the exact same version of the mod installed before hand. And so on and so forth.

EDIT: Added in your better sized picture of the stock grey panther.

[lordzimoa]

but then that simple overlay panther looks a lot better than the stock grey panther.

>>> No sorry it doesn`t, it has no depth, no contrast, no shadows as the grey panther, quite logic as the grey is a real texture on a 3D model and the other camo just an overlay on top of a 2D picture.



Regular Wehrmacht units will all be in grey, SS-units will be in camouflage, this way for gameplay sake, you will recognize the SS units instantly.

If you want new modded to look good as in game, you will need you to have access to the 3D models and textures and from there create new 2D unit icons, but this is not possible to provide from our side.

Of course people can with free available tools, make all units in camo or do whatever they want and will look decent. And a lot of modders will hopefully do their best, but up close you see the difference.

But when you have a good look at the modded units, the amount of detail, depth, contrast, shadow, proportions, scaling will be less than the 3D textured units in game. However a talented 2D artist can come pretty close if you master Photoshop a bit, so we give the modders something to do at least.

[Kerensky]

Okay, well I admitted I was no artist. I still think the simple overlay looks better than the stock grey, but that's just my opinion I guess.

Moving past that, I hope you consider what I said about making the game mod-able and multiplayer-modable, but also maintaining protection from abusive behavior.

[boredatwork]

Tools aren't necessary but a suitable file management structure would be a huge bonus. Something that will allow players who own photoshop/3DS Max to use and exchanged their own PNG equipment images without either manual file swapping or destructive overwriting of original content. Something like a mod subfolder and scenario parameters that allow campaigns to reference an alternative unit file/artwork.

[Kerensky]

Tools aren't necessary but a suitable file management structure would be a huge bonus. Something that will allow players who own photoshop/3DS Max to use and exchanged their own PNG equipment images without either manual file swapping or destructive overwriting of original content. Something like a mod subfolder and scenario parameters that allow campaigns to reference an alternative unit file/artwork.

This is well said.

[Rudankort]

Hi guys. Can you give some more specific requirements to mod/file management which you would like to see in the game?

[Kerensky]

Hi guys. Can you give some more specific requirements to mod/file management which you would like to see in the game?

This can be tricky, so I have to ask a question to your question beforehand. Is Panzer Corps going to primarily be a single player game? Sort of in the way that Panzer General was primarily single player? Depending where PzC puts its primary emphasis, I think the mod/file management system should reflect that. For example, if you want to tout amazing and balanced multiplayer with online stat tracking and ranking, then the structure is going to need to be a lot more rigid. Otherwise people will be able to 'mod' their game in ways that for all intents and purposes is cheating, which can single-handily kill competitive multiplayer.

Boredatwork is on the right track though.
Currently PzC Beta has folders for Audio, Data, Graphics, et cetera.
Add a folder to that list that is called Modifications.
Inside the 'Modifications' folder each user created mod will have it's own folder. A mod named 'World War Three equipment files and campaign' would have a folder named 'Ww3' or whatever the author specifies. Within this 'Ww3' folder, will be Audio, Data, Graphics, et cetera depending on what elements the mod actually changes from the normal game. So if the 'Ww3' mod doesn't have any new or added audio files, there is no audio folder inside of 'Ww3'.

When a person launches PzC, there should be a menu button of some kind for 'Modifications' After opening this dialogue, the user is prompted to select a mod they want to play with. In my example, the two options would be:
Stock PzC
Ww3

This mod list is generated based upon the names of folders located in the 'Modifications' folder.
Does that make sense? Should I make some mock up images to explain?

A few things to keep in mind:
1. Multiplayer games are only allowed between two people who have the exact same 'mod' selected (and exact same version) as their active choice. If I have 'Ww3' turned on and you have 'Stock PzC' the game won't allow us to play multiplayer together.
2. There should be some protection placed on the Stock PzC game. People should be able to look into these folders to see how the game organizes information, but if they start modifying these files, the game needs to be able to detect these changes and prevent multiplayer games for someone who attempted to change Stock PzC files.
3. Assuming mod creators have created their mods in the proper format, the only step individual players should need to take to install and play mods is to simply download the mod, unzip the contents directly into the 'Modifications' folder, and turn on the mod in the main menu(may require restarting program). Very user friendly.

How the specifics of that system would actually work and prevent abuse, I'm not certain, but that's just my suggestion to create a mod friendly, but also cheat resistant, game.