Medieval spearmen question

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:24 am

Medieval German Free Canton spearmen, MF, Offensive, Protected, Average, cost 7 points to buy - so do the Aragonese and Nueva Castilian equivalents.

But for 7 points the Scots armies can buy spearmen that are heavy foot, with exactly the same other attributes as those above.

Is there a reason for this, or is it an anomaly? Shouldn't they cost 8 points for the Scots?

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:21 pm

I am pretty sure heavy foot are the same cost as mediums, their "value" being subject to how you use them : heavy foot are better vs cavalry and and in th eopen and will not suffer cohesion test modifers under certain circumstances that mediums would. As an offset , mediums move faster and of course are much better in the rough.

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:24 pm

TGM is right. Point cost is to do with quality & armour not whether you're heavy or medium.

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:25 pm

TheGrayMouser wrote:I am pretty sure heavy foot are the same cost as mediums, their "value" being subject to how you use them : heavy foot are better vs cavalry and and in th eopen and will not suffer cohesion test modifers under certain circumstances that mediums would. As an offset , mediums move faster and of course are much better in the rough.

Yes, I can see what you mean. I just set up a small scenario HF spears v MF spears in open ground and the MF spears won. In initial combat the odds are given as 36% each so there is nothing to choose between them at that stage, except that it seems that the HF can rout the MF a bit quicker in melee if they decisively get on top.

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:59 pm

I've an A4 quick ref guide if you need it - going onto wiki soon as well.

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:20 pm

petergarnett wrote:I've an A4 quick ref guide if you need it - going onto wiki soon as well.

Yes, I just had a look at the Wiki. I will read your guide there if that's easier. Given that the armour rating is "protected" for both the HF and MF spearmen under discussion, what is the actual physical difference between the two types of unit then?

At any rate, I can understand now why both unit types are rated at 7 points - although I think that the HF are slightly better value, more a 7.5pts than an 8pts perhaps.

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:17 pm

Apart from the movement some POA's are different. For instance Mounted get +1 v MF but not v HF

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:35 pm

petergarnett wrote:Apart from the movement some POA's are different. For instance Mounted get +1 v MF but not v HF

Yes, but what I was trying to get at is if you walked down a dark alley at night and were confronted by two medieval spearmen, how would you tell who was "heavy" and who was "medium". If their armour is the same i.e. "protected" then what would be the physical difference?

petergarnett · Post by **petergarnett** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:41 pm

The heavy guy is the one on the left.

The tabletop army books sometimes give a clue but I can't see anything in the SoA book.

My guess would be the compactness of the scots formation but it is only a guess as it's not my favourite period.

TheGrayMouser · Post by **TheGrayMouser** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:53 pm

stockwellpete wrote:
petergarnett wrote:Apart from the movement some POA's are different. For instance Mounted get +1 v MF but not v HF
Yes, but what I was trying to get at is if you walked down a dark alley at night and were confronted by two medieval spearmen, how would you tell who was "heavy" and who was "medium". If their armour is the same i.e. "protected" then what would be the physical difference?

The definition of mediums per the TT is "troops capable of of fighting in close formation, but less reliant on formation for their fighting style"
The game of course is in the macro scale so no, there wouldnt be any differnce in who you bumped into in the dark alley scenario

stockwellpete · Post by **stockwellpete** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:07 pm

TheGrayMouser wrote: The definition of mediums per the TT is "troops capable of of fighting in close formation, but less reliant on formation for their fighting style" The game of course is in the macro scale so no, there wouldnt be any differnce in who you bumped into in the dark alley scenario

Yes, the Scots and the Flemish fought in schiltrons so that makes perfect sense now. Ok, so it was another misconception of mine then - and my medium foot spears can, if necessary, stand in the open against heavy foot spears and be hopeful of some success. Thanks TGM and PG.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:36 pm

The MF are fine in the open as long as they aren't losing the fight. MF take an additional -1 if losing to mounted or to HF in the open. That plus the POA for mounted fighting MF in the open are their downside. The plus is faster movement and better ability to fight in bad terrain. So it depends on how you want to use them as to whether MF or HF are preferable.

Chris