Jerusalem via Leeds Pt 1 (with the miracle of photography)

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neilhammond
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Jerusalem via Leeds Pt 1 (with the miracle of photography)

Post by neilhammond »

After some debate, and a suggestion from Richard that I try out a heavy knight army, I decided to take Early Crusader to Leeds. With a total of four friendly practice games under my belt I set off on my pilgrimage to Leeds.

I took an early C12 army with a few Bedouin allies roped in to provide some light troops. The army consisted of:
  • 3 morally superior Crusader generals
    4 blocks of cheap and cheerful defensive spearmen (2 armoured, 2 protected, each of 6 bases)
    1 unit of crossbowmen (protected, 6 bases)
    1 unit of archers (protected, 6 bases)
    1 unit of turcopole light horse (with bow, swordsmen, 4 bases)
    3 units of hard-as-nails [hopefully] knights (armoured, lance & sword, 4 bases)
    A Bedouin ally
    2 units of fleet-footed Bedouin light horse (lance & sword, one of 6 bases, one of 4)
    1 unit of Bedouin light foot (bow, 6 bases)
All units were of ???average??? morale except the knights who were, naturally, ???superior???.

My brilliant plan (well, my only plan) was to lead with the defensive spearmen and keep the knights in reserve, moving them to where they were needed or where the opponent looked weak. The light horse were to occupy the wings and try and work around the enemy??™s flank. The light foot and missile troops were to contest terrain.

The first game was against Paul Cummin??™s Hundred Years War English ??“ clearly vying to be first to Jerusalem. Paul had read the rules but not yet played a game. Here was my chance! I was therefore quite shocked to find that, deploying his army and playing from first principles, Paul giving me a close run game. Surely wargame rules should take months and months to master!

Here is the situation at deployment. Paul is on the left, doing some quick last-minute calculation of longbow factors against spearmen.

Image

Paul deployed his army with alternate longbow blocks (with nasty stakes) and men-at-arms. His right flank (just visible on the left-hand edge of the photo) was guarded by mounted knights. His left flank was protected by light horse.

I??™m on the right, with spearmen in the centre, my Bedouin light horse in the foreground on my left backed up by a unit of knights. On my right are the missile troops, supported by knights in the open. The turcopoles are on the extreme right.

The situation after the opening moves is as follows:

Image

I??™m pushing forward on the wing. The spearmen have decided to hold a prayer meeting and are somewhat delayed in advancing, promising to join the general advance ???soon???.

Image

Paul reacts to my flank move on his right by swinging part of his line around. Since the longbowmen are now facing someone else, the spearmen announce that their prayer meeting is complete and they can advance.

Image

A couple of turns later and Paul??™s mounted knights (just out of picture to the left), working in combination with the longbowmen, have driven back the light horse (in the foreground). My spearmen and light foot in the upper-centre of the photo are starting to get disrupted by intense shooting. Paul decided not to charge my disrupted spearmen, instead he chose to continue to try and disrupt me by shooting (it worked for him on the opposite flank). I managed to get a general to them in the nick of time, to then rally them, and eventually decided to charge their tormentors. Through shear good luck (I rolled better dice!) I managed to defeat the longbowmen.

Image

Meanwhile??¦ on the other flank my turcoploles and missile troops are trying to put pressure on the end of the English line. In the centre upper/left my spearmen are hoping that if they keep quiet the English won??™t notice them.

Image

This is the same flank a couple of turns later, but seen from a different angle. The spearmen hoping not to be notice were targeted by the longbows and rapidly shot to pieces. They can be seen in the centre right of the photo hastening off the table to hold another prayer-meeting. I??™ve had to throw two units of knights in to cover the hole in my line. Fortunately I managed to get the knights into contact before the longbows had time to deploy their stakes. The knights broke into the longbow formation and eventually rout them. In the top-centre of the photo my missile men also managed to triumph against their English opposition, mainly through the cunning ploy of having greater numbers.

At this stage Paul??™s army had accumulated sufficient losses and the game was over.

It proved to be a close game and frankly it was only through good fortune on my part that I managed to overwhelm the longbowmen (generally we were on equal odds). My light troops on the wings didn??™t manage to work around the English flanks, but they did draw off enough troops from the main battle to prove their worth.

The next report will be posted shortly.
Last edited by neilhammond on Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tadamson
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Post by tadamson »

Look on the bright side, with takes separate from the longbowmen they will be restricted to 1415 onwards.
:D
rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott »

tadamson wrote:Look on the bright side, with stakes separate from the longbowmen they will be restricted to 1415 onwards.
:D
They will indeed.
babyshark
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Post by babyshark »

Thank you ever so much for the report, and even more so for the photos. It really helps to get a feel for the game when one can see the battle developing. I look forward to the reports from your other battles.

One question: what did your Bedouin light horse end up doing? It appeared that they started off with a wide open flank to work on, and/or that they had a significant numerical advantage over the English mounted defending that flank. Were they unable to contribute, and if so, why?

Thanks again,

Marc
whitehorses
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Post by whitehorses »

rbodleyscott wrote:
tadamson wrote:Look on the bright side, with stakes separate from the longbowmen they will be restricted to 1415 onwards.
:D
They will indeed.

Hmm, interesting - what about pits & other earthworks the English used in the HYW?


Cheers,
Jer
rbodleyscott
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Post by rbodleyscott »

whitehorses wrote:Hmm, interesting - what about pits & other earthworks the English used in the HYW?
Field fortifications are, of course, covered by the rules. Whether pits are sufficient to count as field fortifications, or would be better represented as an area of rough terrain, remains to be seen.

Either way the rules can handle it.
sagji
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Post by sagji »

rbodleyscott wrote:
whitehorses wrote:Hmm, interesting - what about pits & other earthworks the English used in the HYW?
Field fortifications are, of course, covered by the rules. Whether pits are sufficient to count as field fortifications, or would be better represented as an area of rough terrain, remains to be seen.

Either way the rules can handle it.
Pits shouldn't count as field fortification as they don't provide a defense against shooting.
I don't think rough terrain is suitable as this has no effect on MF, and disordering has limited effect except on spear.
whitehorses
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Post by whitehorses »

sagji wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:
whitehorses wrote:Hmm, interesting - what about pits & other earthworks the English used in the HYW?
Field fortifications are, of course, covered by the rules. Whether pits are sufficient to count as field fortifications, or would be better represented as an area of rough terrain, remains to be seen.

Either way the rules can handle it.
Pits shouldn't count as field fortification as they don't provide a defense against shooting.
I don't think rough terrain is suitable as this has no effect on MF, and disordering has limited effect except on spear.

Suggest that Pits are a Disruption Point to Mounted, seeing as that was what they were designed for. They'll be smaller areas of effect than stakes though & more scattered, so less effective.


Cheers,
Jer
neilhammond
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Post by neilhammond »

babyshark wrote:One question: what did your Bedouin light horse end up doing? It appeared that they started off with a wide open flank to work on, and/or that they had a significant numerical advantage over the English mounted defending that flank. Were they unable to contribute, and if so, why?
Marc
There was an "edge of the table" effect. Between the English knights and the longbowmen wheeling around myLH were hedged in. I could have got around that by flank marching but decided not to.
neilhammond
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Post by neilhammond »

Is there any way of compressing the photos? They come out sooo wwwwiiiddddeeeee.

Do I need to edit the originals?

Neil
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Post by hammy »

neilhammond wrote:Is there any way of compressing the photos? They come out sooo wwwwiiiddddeeeee.

Do I need to edit the originals?

Neil
I suspect so.

BTW they are fine on my monitor but then that is 1280 by 1024 which when you think about it isn't that high nowadays.

Hammy
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Post by babyshark »

neilhammond wrote:There was an "edge of the table" effect. Between the English knights and the longbowmen wheeling around myLH were hedged in. I could have got around that by flank marching but decided not to.
I get it. I asked because one of my concerns with AoW is whether it will preserve the maneuver potential of DBM. A static, pretty much straight-ahead game, a la Armati, does not thrill me much.

Thanks,

Marc
neilhammond
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Post by neilhammond »

babyshark wrote:
neilhammond wrote:There was an "edge of the table" effect. Between the English knights and the longbowmen wheeling around myLH were hedged in. I could have got around that by flank marching but decided not to.
I get it. I asked because one of my concerns with AoW is whether it will preserve the maneuver potential of DBM. A static, pretty much straight-ahead game, a la Armati, does not thrill me much.

Thanks,

Marc
My initial obversation from Leeds was that an infantry army could stretch across the table, but not if the foot were armoured / expensive. So you could take a protected-infantry army (spears of bow) but you'll be vulnerable to heavier infantry punching though you. Or you can take a heavier foot army but your flanks would be more open. Cavalry armies would have a similar issue. Go wide and thin and you loose fighting/shooting power. Concentrate and you risk lighter horse working around your flank.

A flank march would enable you to by-pass these issues (and would make a long-and-thin deployment especially vulnerable). But as you would expect, there is some risk with when a flank march arrives.

Light troops and cavalry are able to move around open flanks. What is harder is for single elements to "sneak" around the enemy line.

A Skythian army could prove popular - lots of cheap light horse, but with the option of taking some tough, hard-hitting hoplites.
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Post by hazelbark »

babyshark wrote:
neilhammond wrote:There was an "edge of the table" effect. Between the English knights and the longbowmen wheeling around myLH were hedged in. I could have got around that by flank marching but decided not to.
I get it. I asked because one of my concerns with AoW is whether it will preserve the maneuver potential of DBM. A static, pretty much straight-ahead game, a la Armati, does not thrill me much.

Actually from not worrying about this initially my fear is growing as I read some matches. I am torn. I think a better straight ahead game is a good thing from history. AoW seems to be bringing in more viablitiy and interest in the heavy foot clashes. But I see a significant curtailing of the pivot an army and try and T-bone a foe. Which is probably over done in some older editions of other rules.

But AoW seems to have a better execution of an echelon attack. So swings and roundabouts. I stay interested. It would be ironic if AoW gave a better feel for the foot matches of classical era than another particular set of rules that was significantly designed to represetn exactly that.

Still tell me more. Can we see a photo image of your next match soon? And for the Author's prupose I think the photos are a good selling tool for those who want their ancients to look more clumpy and less flinging single stands wandering about.
bolderdash

Post by bolderdash »

babyshark wrote:
neilhammond wrote:There was an "edge of the table" effect. Between the English knights and the longbowmen wheeling around myLH were hedged in. I could have got around that by flank marching but decided not to.
I get it. I asked because one of my concerns with AoW is whether it will preserve the maneuver potential of DBM. A static, pretty much straight-ahead game, a la Armati, does not thrill me much.

Thanks,

Marc

Marc;

No offense, but Armati is hardly a static straight-ahead game. Quite the contrary actually.

Great report and pictures. Thanks for sharing.

Dave
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Post by karakhanid »

Hello
What are the single miniatures that we can see in the last photography?
Thanks
Mikel
neilhammond
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Post by neilhammond »

karakhanid wrote:Hello
What are the single miniatures that we can see in the last photography?
Thanks
Mikel
AoW units are formed, disrupted, fragmented or broken.

I use single figures to represent disrupted of framgented (broken is pretty obvious). I painted up some early medieval "marker" figures to go with the army. A small base (a small coin actually) painted yellow ochre is disrupted, a larger base on a larger coin painted red ochre is fragmented. Some people use plastic markers.

Neil
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