Maps and DAG games

[mceochaidh]

My understanding, from reading the new excellent wiki (thanks to all concerned, especially Davouthojo), is that the max map size is based on points, with 50 x 30 being the largest map in DAG games. For a scenario, the largest map size seems to be 50 x 50. My question, for the technically astute among us (of whom I am not one) is whether it is possible to use a pre-designed map of 50 x 50 in a multiplayer DAG game? In addition, is it possible to offer the new choice of 4 maps of this size, assuming the maps had all been completed beforehand?

It would be great if choice of map size was part of the DAG routine and could be agreed to, as is double moves and fog of war, as part of multiplayer.

[Morbio]

What would be equally as cool is if you could design your own map and somehow attach that to the challenge! Just think of the fun that could be had then!

[deadtorius]

only way you could use a custom map at present would be to design a scenario and use that map. In pure DAG games the maps are pulled from a list of I think I read somewhere its around 300 or so different maps, and the game chooses 4 random ones based on what you chose for terrain type. Mind you some of the really open maps leave a lot to be desired as they are still overly full of junk in them. Blathergut and I did a test, same armies, choose very open terrain 4 times in a Dag challenge and see what you get.... got the same crowded map twice, one was still pretty full the last one gave us some open map choices in the end.

[Morbio]

only way you could use a custom map at present would be to design a scenario and use that map. In pure DAG games the maps are pulled from a list of I think I read somewhere its around 300 or so different maps, and the game chooses 4 random ones based on what you chose for terrain type. Mind you some of the really open maps leave a lot to be desired as they are still overly full of junk in them. Blathergut and I did a test, same armies, choose very open terrain 4 times in a Dag challenge and see what you get.... got the same crowded map twice, one was still pretty full the last one gave us some open map choices in the end.

I'm thinking that at the challenge stage you could browse to a map you've designed that's in a FoG folder. At the time of submission this is uploaded to the server with the challenge and stored there. After that it's just the normal mechanics. Conceptually the store of hosted maps would then be bigger and you'd see the same maps a lot less.

I'm thinking that would enable those people that run campaign-type games to really tailor the battles to reflect the terrain, and thus the battles, of their fictional worlds.

[Archie]

Is it possible to post DAG army straight onto a home made map yet, if not is it in the pipeline?

[mceochaidh]

Campaigns (and a recent reading of Diodorus Siculus' account of the Successors campaigns) are what made me start to think of the idea, but also due to the very crowded maps I have been getting in my LoEG games. I like the idea of a sort of mini-campaign in which maps offered for battle were the largest size of 50x50 and the army list was limited to historical (more or less) contemporary armies. The larger maps would reduce using the map edge as a terrain feature, and probably allow routed BGs to rally somewhat more frequently. As an example, a Greek city-state mini-campaign limited to 8 Greek armies from IF could be formed as such:

1) Army choice is made from Athens, Sparta, Thebes, Corinth, Thessaly, Thrace, perhaps Kyrenean Greek and Early Carthage. The Classical Greek list from IF would be used for most of the armies. These armies all (with the possible exception of Thrace) have the same sort of hoplite based composition, so you would not be chasing, say, Skythians around a large map.
2) A random matching system is developed to match up the opponents.
3) The best of three games are played between each initial opponent. For example, Athens pairs off against Sparta for a best of three. The first game would be 500 points, but played on a 50x50 map. The reason for the larger map is to allow more manuevering prior to combat and also, hopefully, to find a place suitable for the combat. The second game would be 600 points and the third, if necessary, would be 700 points. If there is a draw in one of the games, an additional game at 700 points would be played. The winner, lets say Sparta beats Athens, goes on to play in the next round, the loser is eliminated. If a player wins the first two games he would move to the next round. This would be a relatively short campaign/tournament as the ultimate victor, in the scenario desxcribed above, would play a minimum of 6 games and maximum of 9, assuming no draws in 3 rounds.

If it is not possible to use this system on a 50x50 map, I suppose players could agree to choose 750 points and actual army size of 500 points for round one, producing a map size of 50x30. I like the larger maps as it gives more of a feel of an initial approach march plus a deployment phase into battle line. I am reminded of Alexander at Issus. I have always been intrigued by the larger context of the set-piece battles, especially the days leading up to the battle. The idea of increasingly larger army size for each round is to force a conclusion and decisive battle by round three and to give each battle a slightly different "feel" due to the larger army size.

If anyone has any thoughts or is interested in pursuing this concept, please respond. One alternative idea is to allow the losers of round one to play each other and determine a victor among that group. Although I am quite busy for the next month, I would take any comments and try to put together such a "mini-campaign" in the future. If anyone wants to take the concept and use it in the meantime, please do so and I would try to play.

[TheGrayMouser]

Sounds like a good idea for a min campaign.

BTW if you want a taste of an operational level battle using FOG, try the official scenario Anitayla that came out w Legions T , huge map , mountains and ravines galor blocking LOS so you really need to scout before advancing your columns. Warning , likly not a good scenario for a paired match as its huge and the map and forces are "reciprical"

[deeter]

Good ideas. Themed tourneys (such as my own Diadochi) seem better suited to game play rather than gamesmanship. A campaign setting would be even better.

Deeter