Offensive AI

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:18 am

I assume it's incomplete at this time, or is this a topic open for discussion?
I just tried the Poland scenario for the very first time, as the Polish, on IMPOSSIBLE setting, using zero cheats, and never saving and loading. This is what the map looks like on turn 17.
Just a link not an embed, because I didn't resize the picture.
http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/5670/poend1.jpg
And
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3343/poend2.jpg

They barely managed to take the south victory hex, capturing it on turn 14 or 15. I bet I could hold that south VH and all VH if I replayed the scenario too.

The problem seems to stem from the offense not knowing how to 'cycle' damaged units.
In other words, their 2-5 strength units just sit like roadblocks adjacent to my city and attempt to slowly reinforce until the AI decides it likes the attack prediction. They don't move these wounded units back or out of the way or suicide them into my units, thus completely blocking their full strength units.

Oh yea, you may have noticed from the picture the only thing they ever seem to buy are tanks. Which compounds this problem because their armor keeps getting wrecked on my entrenched infantry and AT units.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:10 am

Even worse, the end of Norway.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4130/end2.jpg

Impossible settings, no cheats, no saving/load.

This scenario would be incredibly imbalanced in Head to Head play too, by the way.
The allies only have 4 units to buy, AA, Arty, and two types of Infantry.
That's not the problem though. The problem is you start with like 400 prestige, and the AA gun costs 90, while the other 3 cost like... 20 or 30? Couple a unit swarm of that magnitude and the extremely rugged terrain and... gg.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:15 pm

I didn't think it could get worse than Norway, but France is outrageous.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4766/22560885.jpg

100% of the German units have been destroyed and I have taken all of their cities by turn 9.

I'm not sure it's an AI problem anymore, although that certainly compounds it, but it seems to me defense has amazing advantages over offense.
The ability to just mass the cheapest possible unit and stick them in bad terrain and let them entrench is devastating to more expensive and experienced offensive units. The pioneer infantry unit cost an unbelievable 490 prestige against... say the basic french infantry that costs 42. No way 1 pioneer can take on 10 infantry units, not without a ridiculous amount of time to constantly resupply and reinforce.

Any other offensive unit will gets wrecked on the inevitable AMBUSH, so what's the solution? Buy more Stukas and Artillery units, at 450 each/350 each, to combat units that cost 20-40 a piece?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:25 pm

These missions are only designed to be played by the German player. The player will never be the allies.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:31 pm

No offense intended, but if the player will never be the allies, why is the option to play the allies in the 'scenario' version available?

Fair enough though, but I have to ask, what about multiplayer?

Are there going to be non-historical scenarios that people can play with each other on? Non-historical for the sake of balance?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:10 pm

I didn't realise it was but it wont be in the final game

You will never select scenarios in the final game - you'll play through the campaign that links the scenarios together.

Rudankort · Post by **Rudankort** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:17 pm

iainmcneil wrote:I didn't realise it was but it wont be in the final game

You will never select scenarios in the final game - you'll play through the campaign that links the scenarios together.

Well actually, I have no plans to remove single scenario mode from the game, and of course, single scenario can be played for any side.

As for the AI, we'll need to optimize it for defensive scenarios in the main campaign anyway, and when we do, other scenarios will also benefit from that. So, the feedback in this topic is perfectly valid. When I finally get to AI, I'll keep it in mind.

Kerensky · Post by **Kerensky** » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:38 am

Rudankort wrote:When I finally get to AI, I'll keep it in mind.

With this in mind, I won't go into detail why the offensive AI is currently trash, I'll just reiterate that it doesn't know how to disengage damaged units from the front.
The computer is it's worst enemy. Their weak units do not attack against bad odds, do not retreat to reinforce to full, and thus just become roadblocks. If you just cripple the AI units, push them to 2-4 strength, and just sit 2 or 3 units adjacent to that unit, you have a nice little roadblock. If you make a continuous line of these crippled units, the AI basically becomes paralyzed.

Oh, and all they buy are tanks.