Leeds issue: pursuits and charges against skirmishers

warfareeast · Post by **warfareeast** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:12 pm

The Charge section appears to imply that a charging BG does not have to move its entire distance 'charge directly ahead, up to the full extent of the charge move' if that is the case then ignore the following.

-is it reasonable for non-missile terrain troops (say Dailami impact foot or Thracian Rhomphia men) to charge gloriously out of their terrain after evading skirmishers? straight into the open arms of Knights/cav etc.

-why can pursuers stop rather than enter terrain that severly disorders them but chargers can not?

- it appears that a LF charge on other LF could end with the enemy LF evading behind their hvy support and my LF charging straight into those waiting heavies. Makes me think there is room for exploitation of the rules there.

Cheers
Matt

paulcummins · Post by **paulcummins** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:12 pm

- it appears that a LF charge on other LF could end with the enemy LF evading behind their hvy support and my LF charging straight into those waiting heavies. Makes me think there is room for exploitation of the rules there.

but isnt that a valid tactic?

you dont have to charge the LF - you can just march your heavy foot up to them. If they are close enough to their heavies that they can evade behind, you probably shouldnt have your lights there
unless you are the ones with missiles trying to disrupt the heavies, you should probably be a lot closer to your heavy troops than the enemy.

-is it reasonable for non-missile terrain troops (say Dailami impact foot or Thracian Rhomphia men) to charge gloriously out of their terrain after evading skirmishers? straight into the open arms of Knights/cav etc. quote]

that on the other hand could be a bit of a problem, but again if someone has set that trap for you - dont shove your head into it you dont have to charge LF, so dont if they are on the edge of terrain with a load of nasties waiting for you.

Isnt that a sensible tactic - if the enemy has troops in a place you dont want to fight them - goad them to attack you by annoying them with light troops until they go for you, then get them in the open (shades of hastings?)

warfareeast · Post by **warfareeast** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:31 pm

Valid tactic?

that my LF who can't charge anything but LF, will if their opposing numbers evade charge straight into the enemy Heavies? Almost certainly rout and hand me some attrition points.

As it stands I must withdraw my LF behind my Heavies, get shot at by enemy skirmishers for 2 turns (the turn I expose my heavies, my opponents turn) then I can charge my opponents LF and possibly contact his heavies or end up scattered as BG charge differing distances due to the variable move dice.

To be aggresive I must take shooting from enemy skirmishers, I cannot use my own skirmishers to clear away his as they will suicide into his heavies.

This is what I meant by it has exploitative qualities.

Regards
Matt

terrys · Post by **terrys** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:35 pm

To be aggresive I must take shooting from enemy skirmishers, I cannot use my own skirmishers to clear away his as they will suicide into his heavies.

We have the following rule for pursuing skirmishers under 'All pursuits':

???Pursuers normally contact any fresh enemy in their path. However, skirmishers can choose to halt their pursuit 1 MU away from fresh enemy non-skirmishers. If they do so, all their front rank bases stop on that line.

Unfortunately (at present) this only applies to skirmishers pursuing broken troops not evading ones.......

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:54 pm

terrys wrote:
To be aggresive I must take shooting from enemy skirmishers, I cannot use my own skirmishers to clear away his as they will suicide into his heavies.
We have the following rule for pursuing skirmishers under 'All pursuits':

???Pursuers normally contact any fresh enemy in their path. However, skirmishers can choose to halt their pursuit 1 MU away from fresh enemy non-skirmishers. If they do so, all their front rank bases stop on that line.

Unfortunately (at present) this only applies to skirmishers pursuing broken troops not evading ones.......

I have to admit that my understanding at the start of the weekend was that this applied to chargers as well as pursuers. I think that for skirmishers it is perhaps reasonable that they can stop short of enemy heavies. Even so if two lines of troops with skirmishers inbetween them close there is still an issue that because of the turn sequence it takes several turns to get the heavies into contact unless you pull your lights back and let the enemy skirmishers shoot a couple of times.

If you assume that skirmishers can stop short of heavies in a charge you would get:

My skirmishers charge, his evade - no shooting
His heavies either stand and accept shooing or charge me.

Note: If his heavies are defensive spear then if they charge my skirmishers and go too far they hit my heavies at a dissadvantage so there is nothing to force my skirmishers away.

If he doesn't charge then in the next turn I can pull back my skirmishers and then in the turn after that I get to charge.

This feels rather ploddy, three turns to accomplish a relatively simple activity.

Hammy

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:29 pm

I have to admit that my understanding at the start of the weekend was that this applied to chargers as well as pursuers.

I wasn't at Leeds but this was my understanding too - and we've racked up over a dozen games now.

Could we include this for chargers please? It seems unreasonable to force skirmishers into formed troops - they'd stop short surely?

Pete

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:32 pm

petedalby wrote:
I have to admit that my understanding at the start of the weekend was that this applied to chargers as well as pursuers.
I wasn't at Leeds but this was my understanding too - and we've racked up over a dozen games now.

Could we include this for chargers please? It seems unreasonable to force skirmishers into formed troops - they'd stop short surely?

Pete

Letting them stop 1 MU away does seem reasonable.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:40 pm

Letting them stop 1 MU away does seem reasonable.

Thanks Richard - I'll keep my fingers crossed!

It would be good to have consistency between charging and pursuing.

Pete

neilhammond · Post by **neilhammond** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:00 pm

petedalby wrote:
Letting them stop 1 MU away does seem reasonable.
Thanks Richard - I'll keep my fingers crossed!
It would be good to have consistency between charging and pursuing.
Pete

Yes, that would be good. In my second game I charged some Numidians with my Bedouin LH to chase them away. The Numidians skittered around some Gallic cavalry some distance back. I was forced to contact the cavalry. The interaction didn't feel right - a stop 1MU away would make more sense.

Neil