Later Ottomans compared to Mongols - what am I missing?

[Robert241167]

Move your frontal troops to their base edge and something else to their rear.

Rob

[philqw78]

Move your frontal troops to their base edge and something else to their rear.

Rob

But you cannot move in the turn they charge. This has to be done the move phase before.

[Robert241167]

I know.

Rob

[philqw78]

I know you know, you know

[Robert241167]

Now the question is would I be able to pull that off against you over the weekend.

Rob

[hammy]

Now the question is would I be able to pull that off against you over the weekend.

Rob

Pull what off :O

We will have no nudity on the bowling green gentlemen

[philqw78]

Hmm, getting a BG behind my LH before they charge your legions. It would be a challenge.

[Robert241167]

Hey Hammy don't egg him on !!

Rob

[grahambriggs]

Now the question is would I be able to pull that off against you over the weekend.

Rob

I managed it when my EAP played Phil Latin Greeks or whatever. Get the hoplites nice and close, sneak round the back of the proper knights with 4 poor LF

He did ride straight through the rest of my army though

[philqw78]

Now the question is would I be able to pull that off against you over the weekend.

Rob

I managed it when my EAP played Phil Latin Greeks or whatever. Get the hoplites nice and close, sneak round the back of the proper knights with 4 poor LF

He did ride straight through the rest of my army though

It was your single BG of LH that did it. The BG of knights eventually broke. They recovered when lancers charged the LH in the flank and the other 2 BG of knights rode over your hoplites, and supports, taking 3 generals with them. I was lucky to rally them before the end of the game your army fell apart so fast

[ottomanmjm]

First of I would dispute the odds - if we assume both have a general (and that is reasonable considering how much Cavalry a Mongol army has), then the bowmen get 1.33 hits to the Bowmen and 1.78 to the Knights. So this is drawish or close.

I don't know what you consider close, but if a BG of knights 2 wide hits a BG of medium foot archers, both superior and both having a general then the foot will win 15.2% of the time, the knights will win 62.3% of the time and there ia a 22.5% chance of the combat being a draw. Of course if the bowmen lose they can still pass their cohesion test but that still leaves them with more than a 30% chance of becoming at least disrupted.

If you are dismounting Mongols then you want to avoid enemy knights and stick to the non-open terrain. Chances are you can beat any Ottoman foot in non-open terrain. Let the LH lead the knights a merry dance around the table.

Regards
Martin

[lonehorseman]

In the end it is really a personal thing for me. Have played with both and have won with both. That said, I love Mongol history much more so it is always enjoyable to pack them up even after a right drubbing. But I have to say the Kn and Handdgunners make Ottoman a more viable tournament choice.

[Fluffy]

I am not the sharpest knife in the FoG drawer and have the stats to prove it. So - I am asking the opinions of others on why there is such a disparate track record between these two armies, Mongol and Later Ottoman.

Ottomans often appear at the top of tournament results, Mongols appear only infrequently and then usually at the bottom. Why? They seem broadly comparable, with Mongols having an edge in quality and drilled, Ottomans having an ability to field more variety with some quality infantry, handgunners, and cost effective LH.

Are Mongols run more often by newcomers as a more (in)famous army? Or is the variety and cheap LH the winner for the Ottomans?

The Mongols need more skill to play as they have less margin for error.
If you know what you're doing you can take down most armies with Mongols, then again the same goes for most armies you play.

[david53]

The Mongols need more skill to play as they have less margin for error.

True but I find them a fun army for me to use, hard at times to get right it also helps as i like the whole history of them.(not the mass murder bit by the way)