wic 2011 armies (day of the lancer)

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:20 am

I see the wic 2011 armies are out

Looks like the day of the lancer with 4 knight armies and 6 cav lancer armies attending.
Whats with later serbian?

This is based on my somewhat dubious classification:

style Army
cav lancer Bosporan (Dominate) AD 300
cav lancer Bosporan AD 160
pike Alexandrian Macedonian BC 326
? XiaXia AD 1207
pike Later Seleucid BC 166-124
? Three Kingdoms Korea (Shilla)
cav lancer Bosporan BC 108
WOS Catalan Company AD 1380
Knight Later Serbian AD 1390
pike Pontic BC 90
Knight Later Serbian AD 1345
WOS Arab Conquest AD 638
Cav bow Later Ottoman Turk AD 1450
Knight LH Post Latin Conquest Byzantine AD 1250
chariot Middle Assyrian BC 889
cav lancer Saka after BC 250
mixed arms Santa Hermandad Nueva Castilian AD 1483
cav lancer Carolingian Frankish AD 814
MBDR Principate Roman AD 265
MBDR Dominate Roman AD 390
cav lancer Early Northern African Dynasties AD 827
WOC Gallic (Iberian) BC 150
WOS Later Sicilian AD 1236
WOC Viking AD 866
Knight LH Early Hungarian AD 1237
Knight Later Serbian Empire AD 1399
MBDR Foederate Roman AD 450
Knight Later Serbian
WOC Aztecs AD 1376
WOC Ancient British BC 54
pike Later Macedonian BC 205
WOC Medieval Irish AD 1415
Knight Latin Greek AD 1310
Cav bow Ilkhanid Mongol AD 1260-1308

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:31 am

Yours is a very dubious classification. Especially If approx 8-10 BG of superior and elite is a wall of crap.
IMO
Aztec is a wall of quality but with only the protection of alpaca fur. Manouver is their key.
Xi Xia is lancers. But they can dismount. Three Kingdom's teeth are lancers (IMO), but could use a lot of MF.
Catalan cannot be played as a wall of spears due to its lack of armour. Viking is a wall of spears.
Saka do not have enough to be classed a lancer army. A Bosphoran with Roman ally is very unlikely to have enough lancers.
Anyone that tries to use a Foederate with masses of BG will have trouble due to its complete lack of armoured troops.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:39 am

philqw78 wrote:Yours is a very dubious classification. Especially If approx 8-10 BG of superior and elite is a wall of crap.
IMO
Aztec is a wall of quality but with only the protection of alpaca fur. Manouver is their key.
Xi Xia is lancers. But they can dismount. Three Kingdom's teeth are lancers (IMO), but could use a lot of MF.
Catalan cannot be played as a wall of spears due to its lack of armour. Viking is a wall of spears.
Saka do not have enough to be classed a lancer army. A Bosphoran with Roman ally is very unlikely to have enough lancers.
Anyone that tries to use a Foederate with masses of BG will have trouble due to its complete lack of armoured troops.

Thanks for the critique. Turning an army into a one dimmensional descriptor is hard at a pinch but I think my point remains. Many of them I dont know well so had a stab.

WOC = wall of conservatism
WOS = wall of spear and/or superduperness

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:34 am

I think wall of crap sounds good, even if it didn't fit either of our descriptions

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:36 pm

philqw78 wrote:Catalan cannot be played as a wall of spears due to its lack of armour. Viking is a wall of spears.

The Vikings are average protected with some superior armoured.
The Catalans are all superior protected.

so probably similar quality overall, perhaps even an edge for Catalans...

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:55 pm

ethan wrote:
philqw78 wrote:Catalan cannot be played as a wall of spears due to its lack of armour. Viking is a wall of spears.
The Vikings are average protected with some superior armoured.
The Catalans are all superior protected.

so probably similar quality overall, perhaps even an edge for Catalans...

They can be unprotected, and MF don't make a very secure wall.

BlackPrince · Post by **BlackPrince** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:15 am

Will the Vikings stand a chance?

bertalucci · Post by **bertalucci** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:12 am

Whats with later serbian?

Duh - probably because you get loads of superior knights and a smattering of superior halberds plus a bit of filler bowmen

Smack in and hope for the best.

Disadvantage not a lot of units

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:04 am

bertalucci wrote:Whats with later serbian?

Duh - probably because you get loads of superior knights and a smattering of superior halberds plus a bit of filler bowmen

Smack in and hope for the best.

Disadvantage not a lot of units

There are three books with armeis filling this criteria. Do the serbs have some sort of x factor tipping them in peoples opinon? like the offensive spear and protected LH in the spanish medieval lists

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:08 am

BlackPrince wrote:Will the Vikings stand a chance?

Dont know but without being dastardly skirmishers deffensive or offensive spear are the best immovable object to squat in frotn of knights. and protected vs heavily armoured ensures a lot of wasted points on the Knights part.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:55 am

The Serbs has a few options.

3 or 4 KN.
Ottoman ally but limits to 3 KN.
Some good amount of LH of variety types.
Some variety of MF or LF bow
Mobs in 6s.

But 4 Kn and 15-16 BGs.

A dangerous varety of combination.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:08 am

hazelbark wrote:The Serbs has a few options.

3 or 4 KN.
Ottoman ally but limits to 3 KN.
Some good amount of LH of variety types.
Some variety of MF or LF bow
Mobs in 6s.

But 4 Kn and 15-16 BGs.

A dangerous varety of combination.

I see. Sounds like the 15th century equivalent of early hungarians.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:48 am

expendablecinc wrote: I see. Sounds like the 15th century equivalent of early hungarians.

Early Hungarians get better CV .. Szeklers.
Not sure they should be run with 4 KN.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:21 pm

BlackPrince wrote:Will the Vikings stand a chance?

Will struggle to break more mobile opponents IMHO