PD BUG

[TheGrayMouser]

playing a MP game w custom scenario Formigny w lascar

I have archer on hill with stakes deployed, in melee w a mounted knight downhill, front to front contact

the archer is only receiving a POA for the stakes but not one for being uphill....

I assume this is a bug?

[keithmartinsmith]

No, the POA for uphill and stakes is the same but unlike a hill there is no POA for lance either.
Keith

[TheGrayMouser]

really.... I would think it would be harder for cavalry to charge/fight up a hill w stakes impeding you than be no differnece with "just a hill"

Also , i noticed this during melee, not impact
so the knight was up a poa (+ mounted swordsman, + heavy armour) vs the medium archer uphill with stakes deployed ( only + for the stakes and no hill....) thus down one...

So basically you are saying stakes are a waste of time if you have any kind of other terrain to use?

[batesmotel]

This is how the TT rules handle PDs. The archers on the hilltop would benefit from the PD in impact since it would negate the lance PoA. But basically what stakes would do are to provide man-made "terrian" for the archers if they are in a position where there isn't sufficient natural terrain for them to utilize.

Chris

[TheGrayMouser]

Hmm, i am not being heard... This Was MELEE!!! There is no lance involved:)

Anyway, if it is a game mechanic , ie you get either stake POA OR a terrain POA and never both combined, i tend to feel that is a little odd....

Also put it this way : archer on hill with a frontal opponent and has stakes deployed (MELEE COMBAT) Also the archer has another opponent to his flank and is also uphill of this second enemy
Odd that his frontal opponet gets hit w the stake POA, but gets the uphill POA when fighting the flanker (cause stake only give a bonus to the frontal hexes) ,,,, I relaize it is the same bonus but to have the engine calc it that way seems very strange

Why just not prohibit placing stakes on hills altogther? ( I am irked becaues in the above game I forgo a round of shooting to set stakes , never would have bothered if i had known being on a hill negated any effect they would have)

[batesmotel]

Hmm, i am not being heard... This Was MELEE!!! There is no lance involved:)

Anyway, if it is a game mechanic , ie you get either stake POA OR a terrain POA and never both combined, i tend to feel that is a little odd....

Also put it this way : archer on hill with a frontal opponent and has stakes deployed (MELEE COMBAT) Also the archer has another opponent to his flank and is also uphill of this second enemy
Odd that his frontal opponet gets hit w the stake POA, but gets the uphill POA when fighting the flanker (cause stake only give a bonus to the frontal hexes) ,,,, I relaize it is the same bonus but to have the engine calc it that way seems very strange

Why just not prohibit placing stakes on hills altogther? ( I am irked becaues in the above game I forgo a round of shooting to set stakes , never would have bothered if i had known being on a hill negated any effect they would have)

The main benefit of PD in FoG is at impact versus mounted. It means that mounted will not get to count lance and also won't get the PoA for mounted fighting MF in clear terrain. The benefit for melee is substantially less and they probably wouldn't be worth deploying if you were only worried about fighting in melee. I think the basic assumption is that if the mounted survived the impact relatively intact then they have mostly gotten through the stakes by the time melee is occurring. Overall, with PD, it's much more likely that MF archers that would otherwise be in the open will remain steady and hence force the mounted to break off, possibly after the mounted lose cohesion and/or bases.

Chris

[TheGrayMouser]

i do agree with you from a realism point, ie stakes main usage is impact and likly would have had little or no influence once the cavalry were in melee with the archers.... Thus my problem with the mechanic of stakes on a hill ... The archers get the POA in melee w stakes deployed whether on a hill or open, but they get no advanatge for having HilltopSteaks, except the stake poa....


Impact
Knights vs archers open archers have stakes
knights - poa
archers +

same but no stakes
knights ++
archers --

same but now Archers Uphill regardless of stakes or no stakes
knights -
archers +


Now Melee:

open no stakes
knights ++
archers --

open w stakes
knights +
arches -


open w stakes archers uphill or without stakes uphill
knights +
archers -



So can you see the oddity of this? knghts are disadvantaged charging uphill into nonstaked archers, but once engaged in melee with archers who are uphill and HAVE stakes they are advantaged?


Iguess since all units get the advantge of a POA when uphill, seems that units with stkes should get the second poa to be evens , atleast in melee

Forgive me for flogging this to death, i never noticed this before as i never really play with archer based armies.