Shooting by Foot with Bow(*) during the Impact Phase

[RichardThompson]

I have recently started using Late Heian Japanese (mostly because they are pretty).

I don’t know of any detailed historical accounts of how the units equipped with Heavy Weapon and Bow(*) fought but I would assume they counter-charged foot and stood to receive mounted.

Would it be reasonable to allow foot with Bow(*) to shoot from a rear rank in the impact phase when charged by mounted?

Given that Late Heian Japanese are currently one of the less successful armies (213th PPG/244th ELO of 246 Armies) it would not unbalance the game.

[irondog068]

Something has too be done with this list.
Either allow 1/2 of the required "Bushi" to be Superior, or allow the BW* in dice in impact. or something drilled. I don't know where all the information for this list was received from. This really comes to play as the list nears the 1500 year

[rpayne]

I am kind of confused as to why the Bushi are classified as Heavy Weapon. Seems to me that Bow* Impact Foot Swords would be more appropriate, even though a lot of them are using two handed weapons. And would likely be better too.

Surely Heian Bushi should be shock, right?

And why is it the mounted samurai throw their bows away when they dismount?

[irondog068]

The wepon of chice early was the Naganata, HW in FOG terms. There were other things that were used which would be treated as such such as the Nodachi (sp) a real big ass Katana. The Katana did not beome the weapon of fame till much later. The "Way of the Samurai" was "The way of the bow". The Naganata much like the English bill hook started life as a agricultural tool.

A mounted Samurai with a Yumi (bow) would be more happy shooting there enemy showing utmost skill (there are several accounts of Samurai being shot in the eye) then going into melee. When armies got bigger and there were more Ashigaru armed with Naganata and then Yari, Samurai dropped the bow and took up the yari. As they found out in the Mongol invasion a well trained Samurai with a bow is no match for massed bowfire. The distance must be closed and the enemy routed.

So I would say for Samurai no to impact foot sword.


And for what is worth my Samurai just beat a English War of the Roses army.

[rpayne]

It's not a question of whether or not their weapons individually would be classified as heavy weapon. They certainly would be.

It's a question of how they performed as units and what weapon type would most accurately reflect that performance.

Really what they SHOULD be is heavy weapons, but also shock. But that is not an available troop type. Why isn't shock HW a possible troop type anyway? Make it cost a point less. There's a bunch of stuff that should be shock HW.

I'd argue that impact foot swords makes more sense than HW, because these dudes really were armed with a mix of weaponry anyway, and often charged without orders.


It is a really odd list. So odd that I'd love to read some on the reasoning for what went through the unit classifications.


On topic however, I do not think Bow* should get impact dice. I do think it is kind of a cost ineffective weapon type, but ehh, we've already talked about odd weapon-points-costs elsewhere.

[irondog068]

Maybe the HW should be shock. I always wondered why a unit of Swiss HW did were not impact. Maybe to keep the list more historical and keeping them from becoming "Gamy".

A early/mid Henin period Samurai unit would really be a bunch of Samurai with bow picking and shooting there equal while the HW guys would be the retainers protecting them and in melee killing the other Samurai so there lords could take the heads. All the while while fighting the other retainers doing the same.

This all changed with the Mongol invasion since there were sooo many "unworthy" targets and the rain of arrows the Mongol/Chinese/Korean army threw at them was a shock.

After that as they got near the Senigku peroid and the Ashigaru were getting to be the bulk of the army the list started to have 4 basic types of troops. Ashigaru with Spear or HW, Ashigaru with missile weapon, Mounted Samurai with bow or spear and foot Samurai with Spear or HW. Samurai with Skilled Sword is kind of Hollywoodish but if that is a option they should be impact foot skilled swordsman