Restricted Areas and slipper Light Horse

kal5056 · Post by **kal5056** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:44 am

__XX

_LH
_LH

YY

X and Y are both facing the LH and it is in the Restricted area of each. XX is further to the right than is YY

Can the LH chose to Obey the Restricted area of XX and move such that it ends up like this:

__XX

YY
___LH

Thank You
Gino
SMAC

imanfasil · Post by **imanfasil** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:07 am

As much as I hate it... p74 says if in more than one restricted zone you can choose which to obey and are bound only by it... nothing about having to choose the closer unit.

(just had to prove I actually own a rulebook and can read... I'm sure I've put that in doubt with all my recent questions!)

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:33 pm

As much as I hate it... p74 says if in more than one restricted zone you can choose which to obey and are bound only by it... nothing about having to choose the closer unit.

Spot on

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:03 pm

petedalby

Spot on

What am I missing? In this case, the diagram indicates that the LH shifted 1 base width to get by YY. I'm looking at page 45 and it says units cannot shift within 6 MU of enemy units (1st bullet). This is not an evade move so I don't think page 67 applies.

If YY was offset and angled in on the LH so they could move without shifting, then it sounds right, to me, but I've been wrong before.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:07 pm

Posted: 09 Jan 2011 17:03

petedalby

Spot on

What am I missing?

There's no mention of a charge in the OP - so no evade - just a manouvre by the LH. It could turn 90 degrees and then wheel to this position without the need for a shift.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:12 pm

OK, thanks, didn't think of that.

[/quote]

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:17 pm

So tactically, in this example, if both XX and YY were within 20 mm (not MU) of the LH, then the LH couldn't turn as it would contact one of the enemy BG. Then, they would be stuck. Or, how would you get out of that one?????

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:46 pm

So tactically, in this example, if both XX and YY were within 20 mm (not MU) of the LH, then the LH couldn't turn as it would contact one of the enemy BG. Then, they would be stuck. Or, how would you get out of that one?????

Yes - that should do it! Very difficult to engineer though?

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:29 pm

if they can't turn could they still wheel to get by one of the enemy? Perhaps the one that they were facing frontally, claiming restricted area of the one to their rear so they can try to sneak on by. Or it may be a case of contraction and move wheeling with a single front rank base, 28mm player here so hard to picture it with the 15's.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:48 am

imanfasil wrote:As much as I hate it... p74 says if in more than one restricted zone you can choose which to obey and are bound only by it... nothing about having to choose the closer unit.

(just had to prove I actually own a rulebook and can read... I'm sure I've put that in doubt with all my recent questions!)

I know this may seem strange but if avoids more problems than it causes.

If you had to obey the restricted area of all you'd get lots of other tomfoolery and possible paralyze groups as in prior rulesets.

imanfasil · Post by **imanfasil** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:08 am

I can see that you can't obey multiple RZs easily, but it does seem like there could be a priority. For example, have to obey the closest one, or the scariest one... or have the opponent choose one - whichever he feels would be the most restrictive since the idea is to restrict movement not allow a unit to make the move they want to make regardless of RZs becuase they can point to a different unit and say - I obey'd that guys RZ!

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:05 am

[quote="imanfasil"obey the scariest one... [/quote]

Which is i essence what happens. Its just the victim gets too choose what's scary.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:07 am

Note for another fun wrinkle the rule for moving away says "ends its move"

We had a situation once where a LH could move out of the restricted straight ahead portion than wheel back in to comply. The player had thought he had pinned the unit against a small outcrop of difficult.

Polkovnik · Post by **Polkovnik** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:38 am

imanfasil wrote:I can see that you can't obey multiple RZs easily, but it does seem like there could be a priority. For example, have to obey the closest one, or the scariest one... or have the opponent choose one - whichever he feels would be the most restrictive since the idea is to restrict movement not allow a unit to make the move they want to make regardless of RZs becuase they can point to a different unit and say - I obey'd that guys RZ!

After this has happened once or twice you learn not to put enemy (LH especially) in the RZ of two BGs. Only move the BG you want the enemy to be restricted by to within 2 MU. So effectively you do get the choice which BG you want the enemy to have to react to.

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:53 am

Might be worth looking at this for v2.0 if they are not already.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:56 am

lawrenceg wrote:Might be worth looking at this for v2.0 if they are not already.

Why?

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:22 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
lawrenceg wrote:Might be worth looking at this for v2.0 if they are not already.

Why?

Because making the clever move (only pin with one) is counter intuitive. It's quicker to only react to one restricted area. However, it might be better if it was not left to the pinned player to choose. Atlternatives would be:

- pinning player chooses
- random
- closest (fiddly)
- most dangerous (long winded rule needed)_
- first pinning BG counts (needs a memory, may slow moves up too much)

I quite like random. It's a fast moving, local situation. Neither commander should necessarily get what they would like.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:21 pm

Yes, the not pinning someone twice thang is very counter intuitive IMO.

Often the best pin is one where you just pin a tiny corner of the enemy base which is actually rather strange.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:31 pm

lawrenceg wrote:
Might be worth looking at this for v2.0 if they are not already.

nikgaukroger wrote:
Why?

I agree, why? I would think that evade capable troops would generally be able to see enemy units closing in and just move away, which is pretty much what happens when mounted don't want to fight foot. If Cav are close enough, they always have a chance to catch LH. That seems to be a pretty fair representation of the real world for an alternative move game. Why would we want units to behave in a way that they would not do in real life? [/quote]

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:36 pm

grahambriggs wrote:
nikgaukroger wrote:
lawrenceg wrote:Might be worth looking at this for v2.0 if they are not already.

Why?

Because making the clever move (only pin with one) is counter intuitive. It's quicker to only react to one restricted area. However, it might be better if it was not left to the pinned player to choose. Atlternatives would be:

- pinning player chooses
- random
- closest (fiddly)
- most dangerous (long winded rule needed)_
- first pinning BG counts (needs a memory, may slow moves up too much)

I quite like random. It's a fast moving, local situation. Neither commander should necessarily get what they would like.

And because it regularly crops up on this forum.

Come to think of it, it might not be a bad idea to do the same with "evading in the direction of the charge" when there are multiple charges. (see current/recent thread on LH sandwich, for example)