Evasion Question

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:30 am

gozerius wrote: Evading is not an option available on page 70-71. I would gladly do it if it were.

Yes. Once the evade capable troops are contacted in the impact phase, they are stuck in combat. They would have had to evaded when charged. Of course, you still have the break-off requirement in the JAP if your mounted troops are fighting steady foot.

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:17 am

bbotus wrote:
gozerius wrote: Evading is not an option available on page 70-71. I would gladly do it if it were.
Yes. Once the evade capable troops are contacted in the impact phase, they are stuck in combat. They would have had to evaded when charged. Of course, you still have the break-off requirement in the JAP if your mounted troops are fighting steady foot.

I'm talking about evade capable BGs not involved in the impact being contacted by conforming bases.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:09 am

I'm talking about evade capable BGs not involved in the impact being contacted by conforming bases.

And you are correct.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:49 pm

I'm talking about evade capable BGs not involved in the impact being contacted by conforming bases.

And you are correct.

Oh, interesting. Please explain how that can happen?

The rules specifically state how you can expand a melee to involve new BGs not already in contact, either by moving into contact only as an overlap, ref page 75; or if already in contact with the new BG but not committed to close combat with it, ref page 76-78. In both cases evade capable troops have the option to evade. I don't see anything on pages 70-71 that allow contact with new BGs.

petedalby · Post by **petedalby** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:55 pm

Oh, interesting. Please explain how that can happen?

Check out the FAQS - number 5 - Feeding More Bases into an Existing melee.

So if your evade-capable BG is providing an overlap, the enemy BG could expand into contact with it - giving it no opportunity to evade.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:52 pm

Check out the FAQS - number 5 - Feeding More Bases into an Existing melee.

So if your evade-capable BG is providing an overlap, the enemy BG could expand into contact with it - giving it no opportunity to evade.

Here is the applicable part of FAQ 5.:
Can a BG in close combat expand into contact with a new enemy BG?
Yes, but only if either of the following circumstances apply:
- The new enemy BG was already fighting it as an overlap.
- The contact does not result in the previously unengaged enemy BG entering close combat (with the expanding BG)
other than as an overlap.

The new enemy BG already fighting as an overlap must be the point of discussion. It has to be in front corner to front corner only contact to fight as an overlap. Therefore, page 76 also applies. So a BG expands into contact with it and page 76 says evade capable troops can evade directly to their own rear if not already in close combat other than only as an overlap.

BillMc · Post by **BillMc** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:54 pm

The passage you are looking at is in context to the previouse paragraph. So, "...they can evade directly to their own rear.", is referring to a reaction from a BG that has done a "... shift 1 base width sideways to create a front edge to front edge contact...), not a feed in of a previously unengaged file of the original fighting BG into the unit. The evading BG is reacting to a new BG joining the battle to its front. They are pinned and cannot evade if the original BG they are fighting as an overlap has an unengaged/available file/element to feed into their front.

I see this happen often when a 4 element knight unit is fighting in a 2x2 formation to its front. Opponent slides a LH unit up the battle line to fight the knights as a free overlap in thier turn. Then they are shocked when the Knight unit feeds an element of knights into them to fight during their turn. Nasty....)

Bill

gozerius · Post by **gozerius** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:32 am

bbotus wrote:
I'm talking about evade capable BGs not involved in the impact being contacted by conforming bases.

And you are correct.
Oh, interesting. Please explain how that can happen?

The rules specifically state how you can expand a melee to involve new BGs not already in contact, either by moving into contact only as an overlap, ref page 75; or if already in contact with the new BG but not committed to close combat with it, ref page 76-78. In both cases evade capable troops have the option to evade. I don't see anything on pages 70-71 that allow contact with new BGs.

Second bullet on page 70

The battlegroup must end its conform move in a normal formation except that each file steps forward to line up with the nearest file already in contact with the enemy. This may result in additional enemy bases being contacted.

Nothing there to suggest that if one of those additional enemy bases were part of an adjacent evade capable BG they could then evade.

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:50 am

petedalby wrote:
Oh, interesting. Please explain how that can happen?
Check out the FAQS - number 5 - Feeding More Bases into an Existing melee.

So if your evade-capable BG is providing an overlap, the enemy BG could expand into contact with it - giving it no opportunity to evade.

and the lesson from a prior topic on this effect is not to use light troops as part of the front line thinking they are safe while still being able to provide some free overlap dice.

bbotus · Post by **bbotus** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:53 am

OK, I think I see what you guys are saying. It took me a while because that makes the rules read somewhat inconsistently.

Why would they allow a BG to evade if the enemy shift or turn into contact and specifically say in FAQ5 that you cannot expand into front edge contact with a BG other than as an overlap; and then allow you to charge one BG and conform into another BG that would not be allowed to evade (ref 2nd bullet page 70)? This outcome of page 70 seems to be something that was overlooked by the author because he doesn't specify additional bases of a new BG. I read it to mean the new bases were part of the BGs that were charged. Also, FAQ5 says that you can enter into front edge contact with a new BG only if it was already fighting you as an overlap. To me that means that dice have been thrown. If I move up some light troops and fight as an overlap, I'm risking close combat. That's consistent. But if my light BG is on the flank, it can evade in every case except the conforming move. Just doesn't seem to be the intent of the author to me.

Does anyone know of any previous threads on a similar topic that I haven't found yet? I'm wondering what the FoG Moderators have said about this?

expendablecinc · Post by **expendablecinc** » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:23 am

bbotus wrote:But if my light BG is on the flank, it can evade in every case except the conforming move. Just doesn't seem to be the intent of the author to me. ...

most likely an unintended consequence... as it is one of those noisome 'clever moves' referred to in the 2.0 topic.

IE intentionally placing LF next to but not touching friends that are about to be charged frontally by a larger BG. It prevents the larger ones from expanding after the charge

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