Scots in europe in the TYW

[SchuleinP]

Me and my wife are starting TYW armies in 10 mm.
I have Danes , she wants Scots in Danish and Swedish service (troops of Robert Monro) .
We aim at 1620-1635.
We are at a loss what armylist to use for the Scots.
- Scots Covenanters seem a bit late
- Danish and Swedish lists do not have Scots allies and seem nott to have Scottish characteristics.
- Early protestant armies seem very german.

Any suggestions for building a Scottish mercenary list?

[nikgaukroger]

Me and my wife are starting TYW armies in 10 mm.
I have Danes , she wants Scots in Danish and Swedish service (troops of Robert Monro) .
We aim at 1620-1635.
We are at a loss what armylist to use for the Scots.
- Scots Covenanters seem a bit late
- Danish and Swedish lists do not have Scots allies and seem nott to have Scottish characteristics.
- Early protestant armies seem very german.

Any suggestions for building a Scottish mercenary list?

There is no separate list or troops because they were recruited into, and organised as, normal regiments for those armies - the army lists include the Scots within the other troops.

[deadtorius]

Tell her the good news is you already have tons of Scots for her army...... and then take which ever list she fancies. Thats the good part about this period the armies are kind of universal in appearance.

[SchuleinP]

Tell her the good news is you already have tons of Scots for her army...... and then take which ever list she fancies. Thats the good part about this period the armies are kind of universal in appearance.

She's picky about flags, but I assume these would also be the flags of the army that is currently paying?

[Sarmaticus]

She's picky about flags, but I assume these would also be the flags of the army that is currently paying?

I remember an open lecture given by a Prof. from St Andrews where he pointed out that, in the reign of James I, the Union flag were used in the cantons of some Scots units and Scottish flag in the cantons of others in Danish service, depending upon how they were raised. His point was that Scots were very keen on Britishness at that time while the English were Britannophobic. This is all IIRC I'm afraid.
From that lecture, I gathered that units raised in Britain at that time kept their national identity and were more like auxiliaries than mercenaries.

[Sarmaticus]

P.S.
The lecture was, I believe, by Prof. Steve Murdoch. His published works look interesting viz http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/history/sta ... rdoch.html

[deadtorius]

I read somewhere a reference to a Scottish unit in I think it was in Danish service carrying the red field with white saltire as their standard. That would look pretty Scottish amongst those continental flags.
Other thought would be to use troops with the old blue Scottish bonnet, I have heard some argue that the Scots mercenaries might have worn their traditional clothing, so why not the bonnet. That would help to make them stand out from the rest of the crowd.

[david53]

She's picky about flags, but I assume these would also be the flags of the army that is currently paying?

I remember an open lecture given by a Prof. from St Andrews where he pointed out that, in the reign of James I, the Union flag were used in the cantons of some Scots units and Scottish flag in the cantons of others in Danish service, depending upon how they were raised. His point was that Scots were very keen on Britishness at that time while the English were Britannophobic. This is all IIRC I'm afraid.
From that lecture, I gathered that units raised in Britain at that time kept their national identity and were more like auxiliaries than mercenaries.

I think it was mentioned in Muros book, about the scots troops asking their King if it was okey to fight under the Danish flag with the scots cross in the top left corner. BTW the danish King was'nt impressed with them doing this.

[david53]

I read somewhere a reference to a Scottish unit in I think it was in Danish service carrying the red field with white saltire as their standard. That would look pretty Scottish amongst those continental flags.
Other thought would be to use troops with the old blue Scottish bonnet, I have heard some argue that the Scots mercenaries might have worn their traditional clothing, so why not the bonnet. That would help to make them stand out from the rest of the crowd.

IIRC while researching the TYW I found info that Scottish troops were clothed by their employers so would have the same type jackets and trousers as other mercenery troops.

But I still use some troops with the bonnet for my mercenery troops just cause I like them.

TBH in the early period you can get away with a lot as not much is written down(in english anyway if you speak or read German theres loads)

[SchuleinP]

TBH in the early period you can get away with a lot as not much is written down(in english anyway if you speak or read German theres loads)

That is certainly true. I got a secondhand copy of "Ars Bella Gerendi" "Aus dem soldatenleben im dreissigjaehrigen krieg" by Eduard Wagner (1980 Artia Prague)
It's 300 pages are full of illustrations explaining everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the military tactics, weapons, and engineering.
Recommended, but difficult to find.

We got the publication "Scots in Sweden" by Jonas Berg and Bo Lagercrantz digitally from electricscotland for free.

We will probably try to sneak in scottish flags and bonnets in Swedish or Danish uniforms
Shame about the lancers, but you cant win them all.
Thanks everybody, much obliged!

[david53]

TBH in the early period you can get away with a lot as not much is written down(in english anyway if you speak or read German theres loads)

That is certainly true. I got a secondhand copy of "Ars Bella Gerendi" "Aus dem soldatenleben im dreissigjaehrigen krieg" by Eduard Wagner (1980 Artia Prague)
It's 300 pages are full of illustrations explaining everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the military tactics, weapons, and engineering.
Recommended, but difficult to find.

We got the publication "Scots in Sweden" by Jonas Berg and Bo Lagercrantz digitally from electricscotland for free.

We will probably try to sneak in scottish flags and bonnets in Swedish or Danish uniforms
Shame about the lancers, but you cant win them all.
Thanks everybody, much obliged!

There is a PHD study from Glasgow University that you can download free, called something like 'Scots Merceneries in Danish and Swedish Service' I found it a great read well wroth downloading.

[SchuleinP]

There is a PHD study from Glasgow University that you can download free, called something like 'Scots Merceneries in Danish and Swedish Service' I found it a great read well wroth downloading.

Indeed, a very good read it seems, put on IPAD

[rjb]

That is certainly true. I got a secondhand copy of "Ars Bella Gerendi" "Aus dem soldatenleben im dreissigjaehrigen krieg" by Eduard Wagner (1980 Artia Prague)
It's 300 pages are full of illustrations explaining everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask about the military tactics, weapons, and engineering.
Recommended, but difficult to find.

It was also published in English as 'European Weapons and Warfare 1618-1648' and I also would recommend it very highly. I have a copy and the sections on fortifications and equipment are just wonderful.

[kadeshuk]

Curently on Ebay from one of our American cousins in the FOGr yahoo group for $200................it's good, but that good?

[SchuleinP]

Curently on Ebay from one of our American cousins in the FOGr yahoo group for $200................it's good, but that good?

I paid 120 euro's for it. And I'm satisfied with it. Your mileage may vary, if you are just interested in uniforms I may be a bit steep.

[kadeshuk]

Sellers market, I suppose,( like the Guthrie books) . I am fairly sure that I bought my copy in a remainder shop many years ago, which means that I paid somewhat less than the £9.95 cover price.

[rjb]

I bought it when it was first published for (I think) £15 then it was remaindered a year or so later for £10.
When I was in the Sealed Knot a few years ago copies were changing hands for 50 quid or more because it really is that good for reenactors on the details of everyday lives of soldiers but don't get it for the uniform details as there is better elsewhere.