Dark Age Lancers

[MatthewP]

I am thinking of a lance heavy cavalry army to fill the dark ages gap in my collection. What do people think about about the troop types, more lance than light horse, vice versa or equal. Any light foot or other supporting troops. Also any army suggestions, Middle Bulgarian serbian etc. I wouldnt want it to have knights so pre 1100Ad (maybe up to 1150Ad) would be about right.
Any help appreciated.

Cheers

Matthew

[babyshark]

I am thinking of a lance heavy cavalry army to fill the dark ages gap in my collection. What do people think about about the troop types, more lance than light horse, vice versa or equal. Any light foot or other supporting troops. Also any army suggestions, Middle Bulgarian serbian etc. I wouldnt want it to have knights so pre 1100Ad (maybe up to 1150Ad) would be about right.
Any help appreciated.

Cheers

Matthew

Lancer cav are my favorite troops in the game: maneuverable, fast, and they pack a punch. Drilled lancers are the best, but undrilled are quite reasonable too.

There are a huge number of reasonable lists in your time frame, depending on what your preferences are. My personal favorite is Early Byzantine, but I think you will find that some people sneer at them. Another historically interesting list is Carolingian. You could also try out any number of Arab lists, as well as the various Asian ones from Empires of the Dragon (although they may be getting outside your "Dark Ages" idea). Big fun.

Marc

[MatthewP]

Carolingian yes. I can just see myself as Charlamagne. What proportion of cavalry to light cavlary do you think gives the best balance?

I have looked at some of the arab armies but they all seem to have that annoying compulsary battlegroup of Ghilman that I cant quite see a use for.

[pcelella]

For now, way down on my list of armies to do someday, lurks a Norman one. I just love the history of these guys and I think they look great on the tabletop. I keep looking at the Battle of Hastings option and keep considering whether or not I'll eventually try to put this army together.

Peter C
Sword and Sandal Gaming Blog
http://swordandsandalgaming.blogspot.com/

[david53]

Carolingian yes. I can just see myself as Charlamagne. What proportion of cavalry to light cavlary do you think gives the best balance?

I have looked at some of the arab armies but they all seem to have that annoying compulsary battlegroup of Ghilman that I cant quite see a use for.

Just a thought, if you want to use Lancers I find at least 7 BGs is good.

Since the Lancers are the punch you don't need a mass of LH, also you'll have a good chance of catching them if they get close.

I would try 4 LH BGs used somewhere close to the lancers and they should be able to scare of the enemy LH.

I myself would not use to many LF BGs as they take a lot of handling for little use.

So IMO what you need is Lancers, Lancers and more Lancers something like the Khazers should do nicely.

[footslogger]

Carolingian yes. I can just see myself as Charlamagne. What proportion of cavalry to light cavlary do you think gives the best balance?

I have looked at some of the arab armies but they all seem to have that annoying compulsary battlegroup of Ghilman that I cant quite see a use for.

No ghilman in the early north african dynasties, and they have a couple of lancers available. But they have some foot you have to take.

[spikemesq]

Italian Ostrogoths are a lot of fun.

[nikgaukroger]

Carolingian yes. I can just see myself as Charlamagne. What proportion of cavalry to light cavlary do you think gives the best balance?

I have looked at some of the arab armies but they all seem to have that annoying compulsary battlegroup of Ghilman that I cant quite see a use for.

No ghilman in the early north african dynasties, and they have a couple of lancers available. But they have some foot you have to take.

Arab Conquest, Umayyad and 'Abbasid (before 836) have no ghilman (or compulsory ones in the case of the 'Abbasids).

[peterrjohnston]

Abbasid makes a good cavalry lancer army, with a selection of cheap skirmishers to bulk it up. The lancers can be drilled or undrilled. The only downside is the compulsory Def Sp, although you can take them as poor for a 12 base BG at 44APs - when I use the army they either stay near the baggage or threaten knights in a half-hearted way. The lancers also have the option to dismount as Def Sp, although oddly the drilled dismount as undrilled - possibly as mistake, given the Umayyad drilled cavalry dismount as drilled.

Early North African Dynasties are very similar, up to 32 bases of undrilled cavalry lancers, but who can't dismount. It does have a steppe terrain option though.

Umayyad has to have more spear, who are also drilled, and the lancers are drilled - so it gets more expensive.


Khazar is also a nice lancer army with up to 24 bases, loads of LH, and cheap LF, and possibly with the more useful dismount option as Off Sp. It also has steppe terrain.

[MatthewP]

I dont have any arab armies and quite fancy one. They would be very pretty to paint. I will investigate further.
Thanks all for your input. its good to know that not everybody has gone 'all medium foot'.

[expendablecinc]

...I have looked at some of the arab armies but they all seem to have that annoying compulsary battlegroup of Ghilman that I cant quite see a use for.

One sure way to get the Ghilmenophiles out of the woodwork

[nikgaukroger]

One sure way to get the Ghilmenophiles out of the woodwork

Ghilman-ophiles not ghilmen, or ghulam-ophile for the singular

[hazelbark]

Carolingian yes. I can just see myself as Charlamagne. What proportion of cavalry to light cavlary do you think gives the best balance?

Actually he has next to none. I think like 1 BG of LH jav. Bretons I think.

[hazelbark]

I dont have any arab armies and quite fancy one. They would be very pretty to paint. I will investigate further.
Thanks all for your input. its good to know that not everybody has gone 'all medium foot'.

Well with some Dailami you can go MF and lancers in many arab/islam armies.

They would be pretty to paint.
I just saw the exhibit on the illustrated Shahnama. The Persian book of kings. A 12th century Islamic version of fantasy, sassanid and Alexander the Great among other stories very fantasy and romanticized. Longer than the Illiad and Oddesy combined.

The colors and depictions from that era really lend even more weight to their is no limit too how pretty you can make the army.

[LambertSimnel]

Carolingian yes. I can just see myself as Charlamagne. What proportion of cavalry to light cavlary do you think gives the best balance?

Actually he has next to none. I think like 1 BG of LH jav. Bretons I think.

There's only 1 BG of Basques/Gascons/Andalucians in the list itself, but if you are desperate for more javelin chucking LH you can get up to 16 more by taking a Breton ally.

EDIT: Thats 16 bases in 4BGs, rather than 16BGs which would be too silly

[philqw78]

Early Bulgar.

[zoltan]

Early Medieval German. 12 BGs of 4 armoured lancers (7 Average, 5 superior). 4 TCs. Everyone dismounts as superior offensive spear. Very nice; I like!

[BlackPrince]

I run a Central Asian City States army, and I have not been yet been beaten in four games amongst friends so it is not a true measure but a rough idea. Though it was close last game as one of my generals got knocked of his perch at a very inconvenient point in a close combat fight. My list is;

4xTC
3x 6 LF ave bw
4x 4 LH ave bw (only)
6x 4 CV sup hvy arm lance
1x 4 CV ave hvy arm bw/sw

If I am going up against some one a lot of LH bw/sw then I change a LF into mob to give a LH bw/sw or you can down grade a lance BG to ave and equip two LH BGs with bw/sw.

I find the LF very useful for pulling apart the opponents army so my lancer can get stuck in. Spite the hitting power of the lancers I find this army lives or dies on its ability to disorganise its opponents. It is not a case of getting disruptions but about breaking up the battle line into individual BGs.

Of course someone may say that it is not a Dark Age army but it fits the time period perfectly.

[david53]

If I am going up against some one a lot of LH bw/sw then I change a LF into mob to give a LH bw/sw or you can down grade a lance BG to ave and equip two LH BGs with bw/sw.

You only can do this if you know what army your facing.

In a tournement you take an army you feel good with and fight whatever army is sitting oppisite you over the weekend with luck you have a good match up if not you do badly.

[philqw78]

4xTC
3x 6 LF ave bw
4x 4 LH ave bw (only)
6x 4 CV sup hvy arm lance
1x 4 CV ave hvy arm bw/sw

No wonder you are doing well with 7 battle groups of cataphracts, one with bow.

Also the cav must all be the same, (if they are not heavily armoured). All lancers or all bow I believe.