Manicheans?

omarquatar · Post by **omarquatar** » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:02 pm

I know the Manicheans to be a late ancient/medieval religious sect...who exactly are those guys enrolled in the byzantine armies at manziert and durazzo?

Examinondas · Post by **Examinondas** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:41 pm

They might be the same as the maniaketes mentioned in Ian Heath's Armies and Enemies of the Crusades:

The Maniaketes regiment, which features in late-11th century sources, also appears to have consisted of Franks, descendants of the mercenaries employed by the general Maniakes in 1030s and 1040s

omarquatar · Post by **omarquatar** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 2:55 pm

Examinondas wrote:They might be the same as the maniaketes mentioned in Ian Heath's Armies and Enemies of the Crusades:

The Maniaketes regiment, which features in late-11th century sources, also appears to have consisted of Franks, descendants of the mercenaries employed by the general Maniakes in 1030s and 1040s

maybe they are, thanks

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:04 pm

According to the TT army list notes they are Slavic followers of the Bogumilism heresy noted for their ferocity in fighting.

Chris

omarquatar · Post by **omarquatar** » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:58 pm

batesmotel wrote:According to the TT army list notes they are Slavic followers of the Bogumilism heresy noted for their ferocity in fighting.

Chris

i understand thanks

tonymcenery · Post by **tonymcenery** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:09 pm

The Byzantines sometimes formed heretics into military units to fight in battles. It was one way of dealing with heretics. This is why they are present at Durazzo. At other times Christian heretics sided with the enemies of the Byzantines - so Kilij Arslan had Paulician foot soldiers fighting with him against fellow Christians at Dorylaeum. The Byzantine's persecution of heretics had a long history - one of the reasons many Christian sects in the middle east preferred Muslim rule was that the Muslims were more tolerant of their version of Christinaity than the Byzantines. This was a crucial factor in the Byzantines losing the middle east and north africa to the Muslims.

Examinondas · Post by **Examinondas** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:30 pm

Very informative, thanks!

Any recommendations for further reading?

tonymcenery · Post by **tonymcenery** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:38 pm

Yep - there is a nice little bit on the Manicheans in the Alexiad. Anna basically says that the Byzantines conquered them, the moved them to the north of Thrace to keep the trans-Danubian raiders at bay. They were a source of trouble though - but a good source of troops, however. She talks about them a few times. Only when she touches upon their religious beliefs does her writing become a bit laboured. Otherwise she is very clear in discussing them. To give a good idea of how the Byzantines treated heretics, look at what she says about Alexius' traetment of the Bogomils. Funny and chilling all at the same time. Best,

Tony

Examinondas · Post by **Examinondas** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:32 am

I have always wanted to read the Alexiad. Now that you have made me remember it, I think it might be the perfect self-gift for christmas

Thanks again!

tonymcenery · Post by **tonymcenery** » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:36 am

Well enjoy! It has some remarkable bits of writing in it. The account of Alexius' escape after Durazzo is thrilling stuff, for example. Her commetary on the Crusaders is well worth a read too - especially her description of Bohemond (talk about love/hate .....

)

Tony