Help with Charging Question

[MatthewP]

No worries Dave. Didn't stop you winning. Next time you wont be so lucky!

[david53]

No worries Dave. Didn't stop you winning. Next time you wont be so lucky!

You did roll some very bad dice you did make me feel like Dave R(sorry dave just joking )

[bertalucci]

As Daves opponent last night I think I need to put the record straight. Things were not quite as Dave explained. Firstly and most crucially Light Horse FF were facing in the opposite direction to D and E, with their rear to my light horse C. By charging C at an angle (which was declared straight away) i forced them to evade across the path of D and E. A and B both then had to charge, straight ahead to force D and E to evade into their freinds F, creating a nice mess against the table edge. When all the evades were complete I rolled for my charges, A and C rolled normal and B went long. With C at an angle there was not enough room for both A and B and I decided to move A and C first which meant there was no room for B to complete its charge. This was not in any way intentional, I'm really not clever enough to plan that far ahead. Forcing your opponents bgs to evade into each other is in my opinion not at all cheesy, just good tactics. Now down to the real question. B was unable to complete its charge and therefore had its charge cancelled. This was not an issue as it states this in the rules. However the real question is can it then make a normal move. In my opinion it is allowed to do so as it hasn't charged. Cancelled means just that. Dave thought othewise. I hope this makes things clearer.


Matthew

B's charge is cancelled only if contact is not possible owing to the reasons stated on page 54. If it can't make contact because the targets evaded out of range then the charge is not cancelled. Not being able to complete the charge move is not, on its own, sufficient to cancel the charge.

It's a subtle point and quite easy to miss, so I'm sure you didn't do it deliberately.

I agree that if a charge is genuinely cancelled then cancelled means cancelled. BGs can move in the manoeuve phase if they didn't charge in the impact phase. That is perfectly clear.

By the way, if Dave's LH had not evaded, would the interference between your BGs have resulted in fewer bases getting into contact than if they all went straight ahead?

Page 54 is in reference to a charge being cancelled because it was illegal in the first instance because the required turn or expansion is not allowed during a charge.
Surely the only way a Legal charge can be cancelled is if a CMT is required and the roll is failed!

[spikemesq]

As Daves opponent last night I think I need to put the record straight. Things were not quite as Dave explained. Firstly and most crucially Light Horse FF were facing in the opposite direction to D and E, with their rear to my light horse C. By charging C at an angle (which was declared straight away) i forced them to evade across the path of D and E. A and B both then had to charge, straight ahead to force D and E to evade into their freinds F, creating a nice mess against the table edge. When all the evades were complete I rolled for my charges, A and C rolled normal and B went long. With C at an angle there was not enough room for both A and B and I decided to move A and C first which meant there was no room for B to complete its charge. This was not in any way intentional, I'm really not clever enough to plan that far ahead. Forcing your opponents bgs to evade into each other is in my opinion not at all cheesy, just good tactics. Now down to the real question. B was unable to complete its charge and therefore had its charge cancelled. This was not an issue as it states this in the rules. However the real question is can it then make a normal move. In my opinion it is allowed to do so as it hasn't charged. Cancelled means just that. Dave thought othewise. I hope this makes things clearer.


Matthew

B's charge is cancelled only if contact is not possible owing to the reasons stated on page 54. If it can't make contact because the targets evaded out of range then the charge is not cancelled. Not being able to complete the charge move is not, on its own, sufficient to cancel the charge.

It's a subtle point and quite easy to miss, so I'm sure you didn't do it deliberately.

I agree that if a charge is genuinely cancelled then cancelled means cancelled. BGs can move in the manoeuve phase if they didn't charge in the impact phase. That is perfectly clear.

By the way, if Dave's LH had not evaded, would the interference between your BGs have resulted in fewer bases getting into contact than if they all went straight ahead?

Page 54 is in reference to a charge being cancelled because it was illegal in the first instance because the required turn or expansion is not allowed during a charge.
Surely the only way a Legal charge can be cancelled is if a CMT is required and the roll is failed!

Or if an interception contacts the flank of the charging BG before it moves, of course.

[dave_r]

No worries Dave. Didn't stop you winning. Next time you wont be so lucky!

You did roll some very bad dice you did make me feel like Dave R(sorry dave just joking )

I would just like to point out that in the game on Monday, I lost four generals.

The game didn't last too much longer after that...

[philqw78]

I would just like to point out that in the game on Monday, I lost four generals.

The game didn't last too much longer after that...

Sometimes Dave you make me smile.

[gozerius]

So, as you say, had all BGs stood firm the chargers would have all contacted their targets. But because of the evades some BGs could not. The charges were then all legal. After the evades, the chargers would roll their VMDs and then need to either follow the original charge path, or wheel after the evaders. Since some BGs end up blocking other BGs, the restriction on wheeling to reduce # of bases contacted is lifted. All BGs charge and any that cannot move their full move toward the target BGs even by dropping back a base, must wheel to avoid the friendly BGs in front of their path. Simple . And fraught with cheese

[philqw78]

and any that cannot move their full move toward the target BGs even by dropping back a base, must wheel to avoid the friendly BGs in front of their path. Simple . And fraught with cheese

Is this a new rule?

[gozerius]

No. It's right there on page 53. "Any troops can wheel during a charge without taking a CMT. Unless required to avoid friends, a wheel cannot be made if this would result in fewer bases being able to fight in the Impact phase than if The BG charged straight ahead." Admittedly, I may be reading a lot into it. But then, a BG is allowed to wheel after an evading BG, and there is nothing in the rules to indicate that a charging BG can pull up short if it's path is blocked by friendlies

[lawrenceg]

No. It's right there on page 53. "Any troops can wheel during a charge without taking a CMT. Unless required to avoid friends, a wheel cannot be made if this would result in fewer bases being able to fight in the Impact phase than if The BG charged straight ahead." Admittedly, I may be reading a lot into it. But then, a BG is allowed to wheel after an evading BG, and there is nothing in the rules to indicate that a charging BG can pull up short if it's path is blocked by friendlies

THis allows a BG to wheel to avoid friends, but does not make it compulsory.

IT is true that there is nothing in the rules to indicate that a charging BG can pull up short if it's path is blocked by friendlies, but the same applies if it is blocked by enemy that it is allowed to contact. Therefore it is not unreasonable to treat both these cases the same, i.e. your move ends when you contact a blocking BG.

[peteratjet]

Or it could burst through them, which would be funnier, and yields instant kharma. A candidate for V2.0 maybe.

Usually, if there are multiple BGs converging on a single target, I would simply move the one that gets furthest forward first to avoid this situation, although I expect there are geometrical alignments where it still gets in the way. If nothing else, it's easier on the brain.