Give me a Break!

[Byrhthelm]

Hi all,

An FoG Newbie here, and as usual (I suspect) my first post is a rules question. Last Sunday two of us played (or tried to play) our first game. 2nd Punic War (Hannibal in Italy), I played Carthaginian.

The Roman player advanced 3 BGs of Velites, one of which I stopped with Spanish caetrati, and settled down itno a shooting match, the other 2 BGs I charged with Spanish Scutarii. The Velites, quite properly, taking exception to this evaded to take shelter behind their supports. 1 BG managed this no problem, but the other...

The Scutarii rolled a 6 for their variable move, the Velites rolled a 1 and were caught by the Scutarii. This is where everything semed to go pear-shaped.
Playing Other Rules (TM), the Scutarii should have creamed the veiltes (Caught in rear by heavier troops who are armed with impact weapons). However the gods that rule the dice decided otherwise. The Velites (4 bases) fought like demons, took three hits and delivered two.

Melee phase, now I brought in all all eight bases of Scutarii, who enjoyed an overlap on each flank and being swordsmen I looked forward to smearing the Velites all over the three neighbouring parishes. But once again the dice betrayed me and the little so and so's stood fast.

Now the Roman player wanted to break the melee, but search as we might through the rules we could find no mechanism for doiing this. Again under Other Rules (TM) troops may voluntarily break off from melee although their opponents get an uncontested hack against them.

So we were now faced with the spectacle of three bases of veiotes effectively blocking the centre of the field (they had lost one base and were now disrupted). I couldn't get past them, and the Roman hastatii couldn't get through them.

Were we misreading somthing? Did we miss something?

[gozerius]

No misreading. Except for mounted fighting steady foot, once in close combat you are stuck until one or the other side routs or is destroyed.

[ShrubMiK]

Just checking...you did notice in the rules that the velites would get only 1 dice per 2 bases when fighting against anything other than light foot?

[madcam2us]

Also remember that you'd hit on 3's to his hitting on 5s I think the impact was played out incorrectly.

twice the dice and 66% better odds to hit, the light foot, unless playing Hammy would have been toast.

Madcam.

[peterrjohnston]

Also remember that you'd hit on 3's to his hitting on 5s I think the impact was played out incorrectly.

That's the ++POA regardless of all other factors for contacting flank or rear, just in case the OP missed it.

But 3 hits with 4 dice on 3s is about average, 2 hits with 5s possible. However, the LF have a CT at -3, so needed 10 or more to pass. Low odds, but possible. It happens.

Melee is a nightmare though for the LF, good chance they autobreak on base removal alone if they were down to 3 bases.

Who's complaining though, it's 2 attrition points whatever they are!

[Byrhthelm]

"Also remember that you'd hit on 3's to his hitting on 5s"

Yep, the impact was played out correctly, but as I said, the gods of the dice were wth the Romans. Go figure (sigh...)

[deadtorius]

Been there had it happen many times against Romans, I know how you feel. Try loaded dice next time.

[Blathergut]

Been there had it happen many times against Romans, I know how you feel. Try loaded dice next time.

Wiggles his 4paks of velites naughtily in your face!

[hammy]

The chance of the velites surviving the impact is small but not nonexistent. In the melee then the velites are really in big trouble with 2 dice on 5 vs 8 on 3.

FWIW it the other Rules TM were DBM then the velites would not be able to break off from scutarii anyway

The only troops that break off in FOG are mounted and they have no choice about if they do or not.

[Byrhthelm]

Hammy,

Other Rules (TM) were WRG 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Edns.

[hammy]

Hammy,

Other Rules (TM) were WRG 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th Edns.

OK, they might have been able to do it in those rules but as I have not played them for at least 25 years I really can't remember.

Essentially, if a skirmisher BG gets caught in an evade then it is dead. It just might not realise it instantly.

If you want to make sure your light foot don't get caught then have a supporting line of heavy troops close enough that if the LF roll a 1 on their evade the 3 MU move just takes part of the furthest base of the evading BG into the supports in which case the whole evading BG will pop through.

[hazelbark]

THe Caetrati are just playing with their food.

[grahambriggs]

The Scutarii are almost certain to break the velites in the next bound or two. I think the rule writers wanted to keep the velites honest, so they can't get away.

In terms of Hastati charging in, don't forget they can drop a file back to avoid the velites, so they may be able to get in.

[ottomanmjm]

Maybe your opponent will think that his Light foot can hold off your MF/Hf in your next game, and then get a real shock as the LF are destroyed in record time

I have had one occurence where a group of Cavalry charged some light foot. The foot evaded but were caught. They then passed the impact and melee cohesion tests in my bound and the melee cohesion test in their own bound and then rallied from their disruption (for being hit in the rear when I charged). In my following bound they held again and my cavalry broke off! Every other time I have caught LF they have ceased to be an effective BG in one or two turns.

Martin

[deadtorius]

Blathergut likes to force his Roman lights to stand and face my pikes in almost every ancients game we play. If he holds me up with his lights my other pike block gets to hit his legions and now I am facing legionary overlap, whats worse is that he manages to pass the CMT to stand and take the charge but then he sometimes even beats my pikes going in at ++. Eventually they die but as I said my other pike blocks are now fighting uneven fights instead of the much desired all engaged front line.

[hammy]

Blathergut likes to force his Roman lights to stand and face my pikes in almost every ancients game we play. If he holds me up with his lights my other pike block gets to hit his legions and now I am facing legionary overlap, whats worse is that he manages to pass the CMT to stand and take the charge but then he sometimes even beats my pikes going in at ++. Eventually they die but as I said my other pike blocks are now fighting uneven fights instead of the much desired all engaged front line.

I would be more than happy for my opponent to offer me BGs for 'free'

You are remembering that light foot lose 1 dice per 2 if they are fitghting anything other than other light foot or fragmented?

The impact is 4 dice on 3+ vs 2 dice on 5+!!! The odds of a win for the light foot are tiny (I make it lower than 2% which is a long shot and less likely than a DBx 6-1)

[Polkovnik]

The lights are very likely to break on the turn you charge them or during the melee phase of the next (opponents) turn. So they are not even likely to hold up your line at all.
So I also would be very happy to face an opponent who did this.
I'm guessing you win most games against this opponent ?

[Byrhthelm]

I'm guessing you win most games against this opponent ?

No, we're pretty evenly matched. He wins most WW2 Games, I win most Napoleonics, and about even on Ancients.