I have only played a few FoG games and I am trying to construct an Army List for my first open tournament.
I have the choice of taking
a) LF,Uprot,Av,Udr,Bw
or
b) LF,Uprot,Av,Udr,XBw.
I am also taking a BG of
c) MF,Prot,Av,Dr,XBw
and a BG of
d) Cv,Arm,Av,Udr,Xbw,Sw
Looking at the shooting PoAs it is not very clear to me what the advantages/disadvantages of bows vs crossbows are.
Can someone with more experience tell me:
1. Which are the predominant enemies of the above types (more likely to have an encounter with)?
(e.g. unprotected/protected LF or MF would be the predominant enemies of LF bowmen)
2. Which are the best targets for the above types
3. Which are the worst targets for the above types (should not bother shooting at)
4. Which are the Nemesis of the above targets (should try to keep away from them)
The Army I am looking at is Imperial German from Oath of Fealty with
3 BG of superior Knights,
3 BG of armoured, drilled, offensive spearmen,
1 BG of armoured MF LSp,Sw
1 BG of defensive spearmen,
and the above (a,b,c,d) shooting types.
Newbie Question: Bows or Crossbows for open tournament
Moderators: philqw78, terrys, hammy, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Moderators, Field of Glory Design
If you already have a couple of crossbow BGs then I would take bows.
Essentially bow is better against light foot, protected or worse medium/heavy foot and protected or worse cavalry in more than one rank.
Crossbow is better against any heavily armoured troops.
The area where crossbow really suffers in my experience is against light foot.
Bow are particularly poor against troops like heavily armoured knights.
Essentially bow is better against light foot, protected or worse medium/heavy foot and protected or worse cavalry in more than one rank.
Crossbow is better against any heavily armoured troops.
The area where crossbow really suffers in my experience is against light foot.
Bow are particularly poor against troops like heavily armoured knights.
I would go with the LF bow. Reason being bow armed LF are better against their likely opponents, namely other LF.
LF crossbow are a poor substitute in an open comp.
LF crossbow are a poor substitute in an open comp.
Thracians
Classical Indians
Medieval
-Germans (many flavors), Danes, Low Countries
Burgundians
In progress - Later Hungarians, Grand Moravians
Classical Indians
Medieval
-Germans (many flavors), Danes, Low Countries
Burgundians
In progress - Later Hungarians, Grand Moravians
-
grahambriggs
- Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
- Posts: 3081
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:48 am
1. Which are the predominant enemies of the above types (more likely to have an encounter with)?
(e.g. unprotected/protected LF or MF would be the predominant enemies of LF bowmen)
Usually, your LF will find itself shooting at enemy LF and LH. here, bow is much better as it has a better shooting factor. Where crossbows come into their own is if they can get some shots in against well armoured troops. Their factor is still not great but better than bows.
2. Which are the best targets for the above types
The best targets for bows are unprotected cavalry in more than one rank. You hit on a 2,3,4,5,6. Unprotected MF or HF or protected cavalry not in single rank is also good (3,4,5,6).
Crossbow factors are less good but the troops they get reasonable factors against (knights, etc) tend to be in small unit so they can get lucky and cause cohesion tests.
3. Which are the worst targets for the above types (should not bother shooting at)
Big units (10 bases +) are poor targets for both types - you'll rarely get enough hits to do anything. Armour better than protected gets bad for LF bows - needing a 5 or 6 (or perhaps even a 6) to hit with not many dice. Crossbows are generally weak against foot.
4. Which are the Nemesis of the above targets (should try to keep away from them)
The targets are many and varied so the Nemises are too. In terms of who the LF should avoid? Avoid enemy LH unless you're supported by proper troops or in difficult terrain; they'll run you down. Other LF are a real problem for LF Crossbow.
(e.g. unprotected/protected LF or MF would be the predominant enemies of LF bowmen)
Usually, your LF will find itself shooting at enemy LF and LH. here, bow is much better as it has a better shooting factor. Where crossbows come into their own is if they can get some shots in against well armoured troops. Their factor is still not great but better than bows.
2. Which are the best targets for the above types
The best targets for bows are unprotected cavalry in more than one rank. You hit on a 2,3,4,5,6. Unprotected MF or HF or protected cavalry not in single rank is also good (3,4,5,6).
Crossbow factors are less good but the troops they get reasonable factors against (knights, etc) tend to be in small unit so they can get lucky and cause cohesion tests.
3. Which are the worst targets for the above types (should not bother shooting at)
Big units (10 bases +) are poor targets for both types - you'll rarely get enough hits to do anything. Armour better than protected gets bad for LF bows - needing a 5 or 6 (or perhaps even a 6) to hit with not many dice. Crossbows are generally weak against foot.
4. Which are the Nemesis of the above targets (should try to keep away from them)
The targets are many and varied so the Nemises are too. In terms of who the LF should avoid? Avoid enemy LH unless you're supported by proper troops or in difficult terrain; they'll run you down. Other LF are a real problem for LF Crossbow.
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thefrenchjester
- Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
- Posts: 1376
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:23 pm
- Location: the wilderness of mirrors
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thefrenchjester
- Lieutenant Colonel - Elite Panther D
- Posts: 1376
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:23 pm
- Location: the wilderness of mirrors
Sorry Graham, my message was a reply to the message of Olivier , thanks for your ideas on crossbow use , I have tried recently to play Warring States chinese in tournaments in France against:
assyrian
other chinese
dominate roman
early successors
very difficult to do something against the infantry with crossbows , the dominate roman even beat me in rough grounds with their HF " sup , skilled swordmen , impact "
it was not a battle but a collision with no hope to escape
mixed BG were targeted and smashed in open by the chariotry , not slowed a minute by MF , HW and rear rankers with crossbows
Iwill try it another time because it was interesting games ;
Have nice games and lucky crossbow shots
thefrencjester " not willian tell from switzerland
"
assyrian
other chinese
dominate roman
early successors
very difficult to do something against the infantry with crossbows , the dominate roman even beat me in rough grounds with their HF " sup , skilled swordmen , impact "
it was not a battle but a collision with no hope to escape
mixed BG were targeted and smashed in open by the chariotry , not slowed a minute by MF , HW and rear rankers with crossbows
Iwill try it another time because it was interesting games ;
Have nice games and lucky crossbow shots
thefrencjester " not willian tell from switzerland
"-
grahambriggs
- Lieutenant-General - Do 217E
- Posts: 3081
- Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:48 am
Having one BG of crossbow in an army otherwise all armed with bow is not a bad thing. Having one BG armed with bow in an army mainly armed with crossbow is also a good thing.
I found that crossbow light foot were a very good addition to the Later Hungarians I used at Derby. I had plenty of bow, mainly in the form of horse archers and I was able to keep most of the enemy light foot away from my crossbow leaving them the chance to shoot at nice juicy targets like knights.
I found that crossbow light foot were a very good addition to the Later Hungarians I used at Derby. I had plenty of bow, mainly in the form of horse archers and I was able to keep most of the enemy light foot away from my crossbow leaving them the chance to shoot at nice juicy targets like knights.
