D-Day

[uxbridge]

Is it possible for the invading force to embark and move in the first turn, then continue moving and debark in the second? If not, one can glimpse the possibility for a defender to uncover the target hexes by observing the invaders, and then move his forces to those threatened hexes in his turn, thus blocking them. If so, the argument that an entire coast can't be guarded rings a little thin.

On the other hand, if the invading force can again move a certain number of hexes before debarking, this tactic will be neutralized.

[firepowerjohan]

Is it possible for the invading force to embark and move in the first turn, then continue moving and debark in the second? If not, one can glimpse the possibility for a defender to uncover the target hexes by observing the invaders, and then move his forces to those threatened hexes in his turn, thus blocking them. If so, the argument that an entire coast can't be guarded rings a little thin.

On the other hand, if the invading force can again move a certain number of hexes before debarking, this tactic will be neutralized.

No, you can NOT move and disembark the same turn. An entire coast can be guarded but consider the cost. Brest-The Hague (Holland) is 20 hexes to guard, plus the Normandie nose sticks out for another 3 hexes, 20+3=23 hexes.

This also does not prevent invasion in Western France between Brest and Bordeaux or invasions in Sicily, Norway, Africa and other far away areas. Simply, it takes so many units for Axis to cover the whole coast it is nearly impossible.The huge map of 150x72 plays its role here

[vveedd]

Except that firepowerjohn is not saying that interceptions are done the same turn. Only axis invasions will get attacked in same turn/time period. Allied invasions will get attacked the following turn.......but yes all invasions can be intercepted/interdicted.

It doesn't matter. Hypothetically speaking when you have both turns played in sequence represented the same time period in both case (Allied interception in same time period and Axis in next) you can always interpret that Axis transports moved before Allied naval units or vice versa.
For example: in Axis turn transports has been moved to UK shore and in Allied turn UK intercepted them. You can say that Axis transports has been moved in day 10 of first turn and Allied naval units in day 11 of first turn. Opposite case: Allied has been moved transport units in day 20 of first turn, Axis intercepted at day 1 of second turn, which is by date, day (or few hours, if you want) after day when they have been moved.

[vypuero]

Uxbridge makes a good point, to an extent:

If not, one can glimpse the possibility for a defender to uncover the target hexes by observing the invaders, and then move his forces to those threatened hexes in his turn, thus blocking them. If so, the argument that an entire coast can't be guarded rings a little thin.

However, there are several problems for the defender. One is spotting, as he can only see the enemy if he has forces close enough. The other is moving, as there are limited numbers of forces that can be moved into blocking positions, and strategic movement is strictly limited, as are the overall numbers you may even have to commit. It may mean, though, and reasonably so, that the Allies will need to wait until they can hurl a big wave of units at France, land where they find the openings, and slog their way to a breakthrough.

[Plainian]

I've cut and pasted a portion of the France map. I realise that this is still a 'work in progress' but are the hexes A-D really playable land hexes? Hex A would appear to be Cherbourg? Nice modeling if it is.

Just for fun I added some of the historical axis forces for 6th June. (Chestor Wilmot Struggle for Europe) Hex A if it is Cherbourg would have a 'garrison' type unit? What about the hex SE of it? Can 'garrison' types occupy non city/port hexes? eg act as a weak part of the Atlantic Wall or even the Atlantic Wall in its early stages?

[firepowerjohan]

I've cut and pasted a portion of the France map. I realise that this is still a 'work in progress' but are the hexes A-D really playable land hexes? Hex A would appear to be Cherbourg? Nice modeling if it is.

Just for fun I added some of the historical axis forces for 6th June. (Chestor Wilmot Struggle for Europe) Hex A if it is Cherbourg would have a 'garrison' type unit? What about the hex SE of it? Can 'garrison' types occupy non city/port hexes? eg act as a weak part of the Atlantic Wall or even the Atlantic Wall in its early stages?

A hex is land if more than 50% of it looks like land. The Artist has put loads of work making the map rounded so that you will spot whether a hex is Land or Sea.

So, hex A, B, C, D are Sea Hexes.

Yes, Garrison is just a name, we could call it militia or Home Guard or something else. Point is, it is a slow moving infantry unit with light arms best suited for defence. Yes, you can use them to guard any land hex on the map

I think the sheer siize of the map speaks for itself. Only this small portion of France requires 8 land units to cover landing areas. Axis will have maybe 70 Land Units at most and covering all landing areas would mean a majority of units would not be fighting in USSR. Axis would simply need more units to guard than the Allies would need to invade, so I doubt that invaders will have to find at leist some spots.

[Plainian]

Pity about hex A. That would have been a perfect way too represent Cherbourg port.

Is there a limit to Garrisons? Can they be built in any size and number?

Stacking? Can you clarify something. Is it one unit type per hex or one unit maximum? Can you have one air unit, one naval unit and one ground unit or is it just one unit of any? So if the Germans have a naval unit in Cherbourg they can't defend the place?

[firepowerjohan]

Pity about hex A. That would have been a perfect way too represent Cherbourg port.

Is there a limit to Garrisons? Can they be built in any size and number?

Stacking? Can you clarify something. Is it one unit type per hex or one unit maximum? Can you have one air unit, one naval unit and one ground unit or is it just one unit of any? So if the Germans have a naval unit in Cherbourg they can't defend the place?

Only one unit per hex, but with 10.800 hexes in the game that will not be a problem. I tested alot and also in TcpIp vs one of the beta testers and the lines were never too thick, but sometimes too thin! So that means stacking is no problem really.

Yes, you can buy unlimited amount of garrison units but they are inferior so if the bulk of your forces are Garrison units then you can only delay the enemy not beat them.

[Plainian]

10,800 hexes but how many ports? So where do you put your navy so that it doesn't get in the way? How do you defend a port?

[firepowerjohan]

10,800 hexes but how many ports? So where do you put your navy so that it doesn't get in the way? How do you defend a port?

Sea Ports are owned by the adjacent resource, so if Gibraltar is a Fortress and has a Sea Port adjacent then the Sea Port can only be use by the side controlling the Fortress.

Sea Ports count as Sea Hexes in CEAW, so you can only move naval units there.

[Plainian]

Ok I follow you. What you are saying is that sea ports will be effectively in all sea hexes. So in the map of France I posted Cherbourg and any naval unit would be in the hex to the NE of hex A. Therefore ports and naval units won't get in the way of the ground war and ground units?
Have I picked this up right?
On reflection NE of A is probably a better position than A for Cherbourg as the port was really at the centre of the top of the peninsula rather than at the left hand corner.

[mrdozer2379]

has there been any idea of having a small move zone to have instant landings. What i mean is say a transport moves 10 spots and you load and move to spot to land. Well what about you move the transport close to the french land. Now the germans still have the chance to see you but also you can land the next turn in a radios of 3 hexes(a coast zone). So this way they cant pinpoint the landing.

[firepowerjohan]

has there been any idea of having a small move zone to have instant landings. What i mean is say a transport moves 10 spots and you load and move to spot to land. Well what about you move the transport close to the french land. Now the germans still have the chance to see you but also you can land the next turn in a radios of 3 hexes(a coast zone). So this way they cant pinpoint the landing.

Defenders cannot pin point easily since the unit density (units/hex) in CEAW is pretty low. That means the defence would be too costy to have that many units nearby as to cover the whole area. For France, Allies can use 8-10 naval transports scattered around French Coast and Axis can not (unless they totally negelect USSR!) afford to put the 20+ units needed to cover everything from Holland-Brest-Bordeaux.

The defenders might be able to cover most spots but not all of them. We have some very talented beta testers trying and making scenarios and we will see later on when we have the 1944 scenario ready. If the naval landing is too easy or to tough we will adjust the rules

[Redpossum]

Perhaps it might be useful at this point (and perhaps not!) to ask ourselves one thing about D-Day.

What was the likelihood of success?

Yes, of course we know that in actual fact D-Day was an allied victory, but so was Midway.

Most of us acknowledge that Midway was incredibly lucky for the USN; the RL equivalent of throwing boxcars with 2D6. The luck just all broke one way - against the IJN.

So, considered objectively, what were the "odds" of a successful landing on June 6 1944? I doubt anybody would say 100%. If nothing else, bad weather could have destroyed many transports and several divisions worth of troops.

[firepowerjohan]

Perhaps it might be useful at this point (and perhaps not!) to ask ourselves one thing about D-Day.

What was the likelihood of success?

Yes, of course we know that in actual fact D-Day was an allied victory, but so was Midway.

Most of us acknowledge that Midway was incredibly lucky for the USN; the RL equivalent of throwing boxcars with 2D6. The luck just all broke one way - against the IJN.

So, considered objectively, what were the "odds" of a successful landing on June 6 1944? I doubt anybody would say 100%. If nothing else, bad weather could have destroyed many transports and several divisions worth of troops.

Axis could have had more forces to defend France in real WW2 and perhaps stopped D-Day totally but then I am very certain USSR would have beaten the thin Axis lines in the east and gotten to Berlin anyway. In 1944, Axis was doomed already.

In CEAW, whether Axis do decide to put the majority of their forces in France to prevent D-Day and instead lose on eastern front is their choice and nothing unrealistic.

[vypuero]

but who knows - if you are winning in the East, that makes stopping it easier for you.

[mrdozer2379]

well d-day came close to failing as far as i heard. What i heard was they could not get hold of Hitler to release the tanks so they never got to the beaches in time. Also the sky was cloudy giving the tanks cover that could have stopped it.

[davetheroad]

Oh I wish I had found out about this game months ago and not just last week

Are invasions allowed in all coastal hexes or are there some in which land operations are possible but no amphibious assault?

I would think this should be true for some of the mountainous coastlines such as most of Norway and parts of the Balkans Adriatic coast, surprisingly this applies to parts of France/Holland/Germany as well

Look at the attached map, are hexes E, F and G invadable Historically no as this is the 'Alabaster Coast' which is mainly high cliffs with rocky offshores, there are small beaches and a port or two such as Dieppe but nothing where you could land and support a corps sized unit, perhaps a raid but no invasion. There are a couple of hexes of high cliffs around the Pas de Calais/Boulogne and extensive areas of marsh/mudflats in north Holland and the German Bight. you can get ashore with light landing craft but supply, forget it.

[joe98]

Hexes A,B,C, and D are sea hexes.

E,F and G are land hexes and available for invasion.

If the Germans fill every coastal hex with a unit, invasion is impossible. But no German player would do that because the Russians would walk into Berlin.

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