Monty's flag??

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:55 am

I read somewhere that good old Montrose had a royal flag that he kept concealed in his saddle till it was time for battle when he would unfurl it. Just wondering if it was the Scottish royal flag with the yellow field and red lion, or is it the Kings royal flag? Personally I think its the Scottish one but wanted to be sure.
Thanks all in advance

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:41 pm

The Scottish royal standard - the lion on the gold.
John

david53 · Post by **david53** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:08 pm

marshalney2000 wrote:The Scottish royal standard - the lion on the gold.

John

Do you have the reference for that I've been looking for one for a while.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:51 pm

From what I read it just said the Royal Standard, I doubt the king would be willing to lend out one of his extras so I had assumed it was the Scottish one, since Monty and company were running amok in Scotland. Have to prepare Monty for painting and basing with a nice flag.

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:53 am

As I understand it, the main royal standard could only be used when the king was present in person. Montrose was the king's representative in Scotland where Charles was represented as being King of Scotland not king of England. Flying an English banner would have much the same impact on the Scots as flying a St George's cross at a Scotland football match today I.e. Not recommended on health grounds.
John

david53 · Post by **david53** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:53 am

marshalney2000 wrote:As I understand it, the main royal standard could only be used when the king was present in person. Montrose was the king's representative in Scotland where Charles was represented as being King of Scotland not king of England. Flying an English banner would have much the same impact on the Scots as flying a St George's cross at a Scotland football match today I.e. Not recommended on health grounds.
John

Okey but theres no reference for the flag then...just want to make sure

Sarmaticus · Post by **Sarmaticus** » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:09 pm

marshalney2000 wrote:As I understand it, the main royal standard could only be used when the king was present in person. Montrose was the king's representative in Scotland where Charles was represented as being King of Scotland not king of England. Flying an English banner would have much the same impact on the Scots as flying a St George's cross at a Scotland football match today I.e. Not recommended on health grounds.
John

I would have thought it would have been the King's standard in Scotland, with Scotland, rather than France/England in the 1st & 4th quarters,
see:
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/gb-sc-rb.html#jasvi
or:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_scotland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coat_ ... 649%29.svg
P.S.
IIRC the charges on both sides should all be facing the staff which represents the heraldic right (dexter).

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:41 pm

I was under the impression the "Royal Banner" was only flown when the king was present, therefore I was leaning more towards the Lion Rampant of Scotland myself. I could see how the English banner could upset some of the Highland boys, not sure I would want them mad at me if I wanted them to fight for me.
Interesting discussion so far.

Sarmaticus · Post by **Sarmaticus** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:11 pm

deadtorius wrote:I was under the impression the "Royal Banner" was only flown when the king was present, therefore I was leaning more towards the Lion Rampant of Scotland myself. I could see how the English banner could upset some of the Highland boys, not sure I would want them mad at me if I wanted them to fight for me.
Interesting discussion so far.

I think that's English usage:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Standard_of_Scotland

"In the tradition of Scottish heraldry, use of the Royal Standard of Scotland is not restricted to the Sovereign.[15] Several Great Officers of State who officially represent the Sovereign in Scotland are permitted to use the Royal Standard of Scotland, including; the First Minister of Scotland (as Keeper of the Great Seal of Scotland), Lord Lieutenants within their respective Lieutenancies, the Lord High Commissioner to the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, the Lord Lyon King of Arms and other lieutenants who may be specially appointed by the Sovereign."

marshalney2000 · Post by **marshalney2000** » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:39 pm

I think we are pretty much agreed on this from my reading of the posts that Montrose would have flown the Lion Rampant or to give it it's other name the Royal Standard of Scotland. The Covenanters on the other hand would have been the cross of St Andrew.
John

Sarmaticus · Post by **Sarmaticus** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:43 pm

marshalney2000 wrote:I think we are pretty much agreed on this from my reading of the posts that Montrose would have flown the Lion Rampant or to give it it's other name the Royal Standard of Scotland. The Covenanters on the other hand would have been the cross of St Andrew.
John

In England it seems to have been the full version of the Royal Arms that was flown on the standard, rather than just the leopards of England. Perhaps usage was different in Scotland and just the lion rampant, trellised eas rather than the official Scottish version of the full arms but does anyone have any evidence on this?