Swedish Detached Shot

[LambertSimnel]

I am a bit unclear as to what happens if an army with Swedish Brigades wants to detach shot to create a forlorn hope.

Starting with 2 Swedish brigades (each 4 shot + 3 pike), 4 shot can, I assume, be detached from one of them and the pike given to the other giving a BG of 4 shot + 6 pike. This BG can be drawn up with the pike either 2 wide and 3 deep or 3 wide and 2 deep with 2 shot on each side, right? Am I right in thinking that this combined BG doesn't count as a Swedish Brigade?

Also, what happens to any regimental guns that the original brigades had? The rules on detaching shot only allow bases with shooting capability to be detached, but as regimental guns aren't bases (they're markers) this sounds to me like they have to remain with the pike. Does this mean that if both of the original BGs had a regimental gun marker then the combined pike and shot BG will have 2 regimental guns?

[david53]

I am a bit unclear as to what happens if an army with Swedish Brigades wants to detach shot to create a forlorn hope.

Starting with 2 Swedish brigades (each 4 shot + 3 pike), 4 shot can, I assume, be detached from one of them and the pike given to the other giving a BG of 4 shot + 6 pike. This BG can be drawn up with the pike either 2 wide and 3 deep or 3 wide and 2 deep with 2 shot on each side, right? Am I right in thinking that this combined BG doesn't count as a Swedish Brigade?

Also, what happens to any regimental guns that the original brigades had? The rules on detaching shot only allow bases with shooting capability to be detached, but as regimental guns aren't bases (they're markers) this sounds to me like they have to remain with the pike. Does this mean that if both of the original BGs had a regimental gun marker then the combined pike and shot BG will have 2 regimental guns?

I thought that you can detach up to half the BG's in the army which as you say means one BG can detach, ie a seperate BG of 4 base shot and 4 seperate base pike, I don't think you can place these pike onto another BG. It says page 182 all tempory BG must conform to normal BG rules ie only 7 bases for Swedish

[LambertSimnel]

I am a bit unclear as to what happens if an army with Swedish Brigades wants to detach shot to create a forlorn hope.

Starting with 2 Swedish brigades (each 4 shot + 3 pike), 4 shot can, I assume, be detached from one of them and the pike given to the other giving a BG of 4 shot + 6 pike. This BG can be drawn up with the pike either 2 wide and 3 deep or 3 wide and 2 deep with 2 shot on each side, right? Am I right in thinking that this combined BG doesn't count as a Swedish Brigade?

Also, what happens to any regimental guns that the original brigades had? The rules on detaching shot only allow bases with shooting capability to be detached, but as regimental guns aren't bases (they're markers) this sounds to me like they have to remain with the pike. Does this mean that if both of the original BGs had a regimental gun marker then the combined pike and shot BG will have 2 regimental guns?

I thought that you can detach up to half the BG's in the army which as you say means one BG can detach, ie a seperate BG of 4 base shot and 4 seperate base pike, I don't think you can place these pike onto another BG. It says page 182 all tempory BG must conform to normal BG rules ie only 7 bases for Swedish

I missed the bit about only detaching from 1/2 your BGs, but the bit on p182 that says ' all tempory BG must conform to normal BG rules' continues 'but need not conform to the composition of battle groups in the army list. So, by analogy with the example on p183 where a parliamentarian army turns 2*(4shot + 2pike) into 1*4shot and 1*(4shot + 4pike), it should be possible to turn 2*(4shot + 3pike) into 1*4shot and 1*(4shot + 6pike) if the army has at least two other mixed BGs.

[Blathergut]

Not sure if the rules state it, but since the Swedes have commanded shot with RGs, why not the detached foot?

[SirGarnet]

the bit on p182 that says ' all tempory BG must conform to normal BG rules' continues 'but need not conform to the composition of battle groups in the army list. So, by analogy with the example on p183 where a parliamentarian army turns 2*(4shot + 2pike) into 1*4shot and 1*(4shot + 4pike), it should be possible to turn 2*(4shot + 3pike) into 1*4shot and 1*(4shot + 6pike) if the army has at least two other mixed BGs.

Yes.

Detaching Regimental Guns: There is no provision for this. They stay with the original parent BG.

If two parent BGs each with Regimental Guns are combined then they now form one BG with Regimental Guns. Anticipating this, however, the player will have fielded one of these two BGs without Regimental Guns so as not to waste points.

[david53]

I am a bit unclear as to what happens if an army with Swedish Brigades wants to detach shot to create a forlorn hope.

Starting with 2 Swedish brigades (each 4 shot + 3 pike), 4 shot can, I assume, be detached from one of them and the pike given to the other giving a BG of 4 shot + 6 pike. This BG can be drawn up with the pike either 2 wide and 3 deep or 3 wide and 2 deep with 2 shot on each side, right? Am I right in thinking that this combined BG doesn't count as a Swedish Brigade?

Also, what happens to any regimental guns that the original brigades had? The rules on detaching shot only allow bases with shooting capability to be detached, but as regimental guns aren't bases (they're markers) this sounds to me like they have to remain with the pike. Does this mean that if both of the original BGs had a regimental gun marker then the combined pike and shot BG will have 2 regimental guns?

I thought that you can detach up to half the BG's in the army which as you say means one BG can detach, ie a seperate BG of 4 base shot and 4 seperate base pike, I don't think you can place these pike onto another BG. It says page 182 all tempory BG must conform to normal BG rules ie only 7 bases for Swedish

I missed the bit about only detaching from 1/2 your BGs, but the bit on p182 that says ' all tempory BG must conform to normal BG rules' continues 'but need not conform to the composition of battle groups in the army list. So, by analogy with the example on p183 where a parliamentarian army turns 2*(4shot + 2pike) into 1*4shot and 1*(4shot + 4pike), it should be possible to turn 2*(4shot + 3pike) into 1*4shot and 1*(4shot + 6pike) if the army has at least two other mixed BGs.

But having 4 shot and 6 pike unless your doing an early army ie pre the first book what army has BG comprising 4 shot and 6 pike? if its down as 6 bases per BG the limit must therefore be 6 bases unless its 7 in the case of Sweden. The idea is to place shot in one BG and Pike in another BG all made up of combined units not add these pike to a uncombined unit the extra units don't add to the break point of the army.

[rbodleyscott]

But having 4 shot and 6 pike unless your doing an early army ie pre the first book what army has BG comprising 4 shot and 6 pike? if its down as 6 bases per BG the limit must therefore be 6 bases unless its 7 in the case of Sweden. The idea is to place shot in one BG and Pike in another BG all made up of combined units not add these pike to a uncombined unit the extra units don't add to the break point of the army.

As quoted in a post above, the combined BG does not have to conform to any BG in the lists, only to the rules for forming BGs.

So, detach 2 shot from each of 2 Swedish brigades and get 1 BG of 4 shot, and one of 4 shot and 6 pikes (which is not a Swedish brigade).

Though why anyone would want to is beyond me.

Alternately you could detach all 8 shot and make 1 BG of 8 shot and 1 of 6 pikes. Which might even be a useful thing to do in dense terrain - the pikes can rear support some artillery.

[footslogger]

Though why anyone would want to is beyond me.

Simple, because you wrote rules allowing players to. You are dealing with wargamers here you know....

[Andy1972]

They do still get Salvo though correct?

[rbodleyscott]

They do still get Salvo though correct?

Yes

[rbodleyscott]

Though why anyone would want to is beyond me.

Simple, because you wrote rules allowing players to. You are dealing with wargamers here you know....

I wasn't commenting on the propriety of doing it, only on the lack of tactical advantage. We are happy for the rules to allow people to shoot themselves in the foot if they so choose.