Wounding generals

[gchristie]

This must have been covered elsewhere, but can someone who knows the game mechanics let me know:

Do generals commanding a unit that is forced to retreat always get wounded and go on R and R?

Or, is there a percentage chance that they get wounded if their unit is forced to retreat in combat?

If it is the former, I just forced a unit to retreat and the commander did not get wounded.

If it is the latter, I don't care what the percentage chance is, just knowing it's not automatic will suffice.

Thanks.

[_Augustus_]

Some info when I wondered about(ish) the same subject: viewtopic.php?t=18398

_augustus_

[gchristie]

Thank you for reminding me of our exchange.

This seems to be a circular conversation, with you and I groping in the dark. According to Ronnie's comment, the leader is wounded 100% of the time when his unit is forced to retreat. But in a PBEM I forced a leader's mech to retreat and I did not see the so and so is on R and R window pop up, so there is either a glitch or a percentage chance for the leader to get winged.

The mystery continues.

[_Augustus_]

The mystery continues.

From the link I provided: "My results on that particular save and situation show 10 out of 14 intances the leader was not in injured if pushed back." I'd say the results from my hotseat testing are firm that a leader _can_ get R&R from a pushback using GS 1.0x.

I seem to recall there was a 2.xx/1.1x posting that said that the team removed the possibility of a leader getting R&R from a pushback. For what's it worth I personally don't like the change. I like many of the changes they have introduced for the leaders in 1.1x+ but not this one. If the turn represents 20 days I like the fact that there is a slight chance the HQ gets pummeled in those 20 days of fighting. Especially as I seem to recall the team also shortened the time leaders spend in R&R.

Just my 2 cents,

_augustus_

[gchristie]

Mystery solved.

Thanks for testing this and posting the results. I should have read to the end of the link that you sent to me.

I agree, there should be some small chance of removing a general from play. I'd go even farther to suggest that it should be possible on rare instances to kill or capture the fellow.

So it looks like I am particularly unlucky when my generals are forced to retreat.

[schwerpunkt]

The mystery continues.

I seem to recall there was a 2.xx posting that said that the team removed the possibility of a leader getting R&R from a pushback. For what's it worth I personally don't like the change. I like many of the changes they have introduced for the leaders in 1.1x+ but not this one. If the turn represents 20 days I like the fact that there is a slight chance the HQ gets pummeled in those 20 days of fighting. Especially as I seem to recall the team also shortened the time leaders spend in R&R.

Just my 2 cents,

_augustus_

Just as a note, there were comparatively few commanders who got injured or killed as a result of combat. Most German corps commander injuries occured late in the war in the rear areas as a result of air straffing so its arguable that commanders get injured too often in CEAW....

[gchristie]

Are you counting generals executed at Hitler's order?

According to the website http://www.world-war-2.info/facts/

"84 German Generals were executed by Hitler" the site goes on to say,

"Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks" according to the site, but they don't say if the 84 executed are included in this number.

I don't dispute your point, it just made me curious about generals' mortality rate in WWII, which was certainly less than the death rate among Union and Confederate generals in the American Civil War.

The highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.

[schwerpunkt]

Are you counting generals executed at Hitler's order?

According to the website http://www.world-war-2.info/facts/

"84 German Generals were executed by Hitler" the site goes on to say,

"Germany lost 136 Generals, which averages out to be 1 dead General every 2 weeks" according to the site, but they don't say if the 84 executed are included in this number.

I don't dispute your point, it just made me curious about generals' mortality rate in WWII, which was certainly less than the death rate among Union and Confederate generals in the American Civil War.

The highest ranking American killed was Lt. Gen. Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.

Yes, as the website notes, Germany lost 110 division commanders (Colonel-General rank I believe). There were quite a few suicides as well due to end of war issues and the Hitler plot but its hard to tell whether they are included in the 110 or 136 figures. I would assume so as the figure appears to be a total.

[rkr1958]

Reference: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 63#p431663

Here is my list of Italian general officers, who died between 1940 and 1945. The list includes all causes of death, from old age to kias. Also it includes some that not all would consider true WWII generals, such as Mussolini. However this just leaves my list more incomplete, so I would only be more interested to know of the 68.

Amico, Major-General Giuseppe (1890-1943)
Artale, Lieutenant-General Vito (1882-1944)
Aventi, Brigadier-General Giuseppe (1898-1943)
Baldassare, Lieutenant-General Ettore (1883-1942)
Bellomo, Major-General Nicola (1881-1945)
Cavallero, Marshal of Italy Ugo (1880-1943)
Caviglia, Marshal of Italy Enrico (1862-1945)
Cigala-Fulgosi, Major-General Alfonso (1884-1943)
De Bono, Marshal of Italy Emilio (1866-1944)
De Carolis, Brigadier-General Ugo (1887-1941)
Dodi, Brigadier-General Pietro (1880-1944)
Ferrari Orsi, Lieutenant-General Federico (1886-1942)
Francisci, Major-General Enrico (1884-1943)
Gandin, Major-General Antonio (1891-1943)
Gherzi, Brigadier-General Luigi (1889-1943)
Gonzga Del Vodice, Brigadier-General Ferrante (1889-1943)
Hazon, Lieutenant-General Azzolino ( -1943)
Ioppi, Brigadier-General Giuseppe (1904-1944)
Lorenzini, Brigadier-General Raimondo (1890-1941)
Maletti, Brigadier-General Pietro (1880-1940)
Manca, Brigadier-General Candido (1907-1944)
Martinat, Brigadier-General Guilio (1891-1943)
Mussolini, Marshal of the Empire Benito (1883-1945)
Muti, Brigadier-General Ettore (1902-1943)
Perotti, Brigadier-General Giuseppe (1895-1944)
Piacenza, Brigadier-General Guido ( -1942)
Pintor, General Pietro (1880-1940)
Sergi, Brigadier-General Gerardo (1917-1944)
Simoni, Major-General Simone (1880-1944)
Starace, Major-General Achille (1889-1945)
Tellera, Lieutenant-General Guiseppe (1882-1941)
Tringali, Major-General Casanuova Antonino (1888-1943)
Zuddas, Brigadier-General Enrico (1911-1944)

Reference: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 72#p447672

The wehrmacht had the highest propotion of Generals and other ranked general officers killed in WW2..

Around 1,000 plus were killed in battle, WIA, MIA, other death causes from 3,000 Generals of the Wehrmacht...

Please read the book Quiet Flows the Rhine by French Maclean

Reference: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 83#p451083

786 German Generals die during World War 2:
253 - KIA
44 - died of wounds
81 - committed suicide
23 - execute by Hitler
41 - executed by Allies
326 - die of other causes

[Peter Stauffenberg]

Remember that most of the generals in GS are corps, army, army group size generals and not the brigade, division sized generals. Very few of the generals in the game were actually killed.

Also important is that the leader concept is changed a lot in GS. The command radius is leadership quality - 2 instead of 8. The prices have dropped as well. So you will see more leaders and more at the front line to take advantage of the attack or defense bonuses.

Leaders used to be very expensive and most players didn't dare to place them in the front line since they could be injured because of a retreat. Now they will only be injured if the unit is destroyed and the injury time is max 9 months. So we hope the players will now be encouraged to more actively use their leaders.