Louis XIII Flag details

[Spartacus]

I am trying to find flag details or suppliers of flags for a TYW French army circa 1643. I can find before and after but none for this date.

In fact this may be of use to some for French flags of 1700 onwards :-

http://www.drapeaux.org/Principal.htm

[Skullzgrinda]

I believe the senior regiments of Picardie, Champagne, Navarre and Piémont had exactly the same colonels' flags and drapeaux d' ordonnance as they carried under Louis XIV - Louis XVI. From this article, it looks like 2 colored drapeaux and the colonel's banner of a white cross on a white field should be placed in the center of the pikes. These regiments' musicians also wore the king's livery later in the 17th century.
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fr%5Er_mon.html
This article is unduly dismissive about the information available on drapeaux and even for livery for French regiments of the 1670's - 1690's. There is enough information around to easily do an army to one's taste for that later period. Using this late century information for early and mid century units would of course be speculative.

I have no firm information on cavalry and dragoon standards prior to Louis XIV.

[Skullzgrinda]

Again, a mere clue, but with the potential for much fun. The imagery of the sun in splendor and"nec pluribus impar" on the cavalry flags of Louis XIV's army is very dominant. If this use of a personal sign and reference goes back to Louis XIII, this might be fun:

"# Louis XIII (1610-43): a scale. Allusion to his astrological sign and his name Louis le Juste.

# Louis XIV (1643-1715): a sun in its splendor. Motto: nec pluribus impar. "

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/frarms.htm

"Milord, we are surrounded by lawyers!"

[Spartacus]

Thanks Skullzgrinda. I think you have a good point about the Sun flags and I suppose plenty of Fleur de Llys. I am not totally anal about having everything historically accurate but always try to get close.

Thanks for the input and I still have plenty of time because I only started painting the Army this weekend. In between painting a Southern Dynasty Chinese and 2 WOTR Armies

Dammit!! Gotta get me a life sometime.

[Skullzgrinda]

No! Stay the course! People will let you down all the time, but minis are stoic, uncomplaining and faithful. (Dice, the little harlots, are another matter entirely)

I am interested in the same data, as the French are one of my top two choices at the moment. I will keep you apprised of what I find. I have a LOT of material from the late 17th and early 18th century in a carton somewhere. I think the data will serve as models for imitation at least.

Punter: "WTF? What is this or, a peacock in splendor, upon a field, azure? I don't recognize this house!"

Painter: "Truly? You don't recognize that, despite it prevalence in every . . .?!? Oh my. Well, I won't tell anybody. We'll just keep this to ourselves."

Seriously, few armies would ever be doable without a little fudging. The WSS has always been a period of great interest to me. I was excited as I could be when I went to the Austrian Army Museum in Vienna some years ago, notebook at the ready to record the mother load of information. I found whole corridors of displays from the Napoleonic Wars, several rooms with artifacts from the SYW, and one chamber and a few cases with items from the WSS. Most of the display was Prinz Eugen's cuirass and buff coat, and draping banners from his state funeral. This visual demonstration of how much is lost, so quickly, left me much more flexible in modeling armies.

A solid base of what is known to exist, some reasonable extrapolations from known artifacts just before and immediately after the period in question, some cultural generics, and a scant sprinkling of speculation is about the best we can do in modeling the appearances, or indeed the performances of these past armies.

[DanielS]

Museums seldom have the resources to display more than a minor part of their collections and what is interesting to the wargamer and the public is often two diffrent things. For example the Swedish army museum is the home to the world's largest collection of military trophies but only a small part of the collection is on display, indeed for a long period no items were on display at all. And much information may not be located at the museum at all, for example as far as Swedish WSS/GNW period flags are concerned you have to visit the War Archive because it is in charge of the actual documents and paintings detailing the flags issued to the regiments.

[Skullzgrinda]

I wondered if it was due to demand or popularity. I certainly hope so, as it left a very stark and melancholy impression. The empty cuirass and buffcoat of Prinz Eugen was particularly evocative - even to a Marshal Villars devotee such as myself.

On the other hand, I did get about 250 photographs of gun tubes from the late 1500s through the end of the 1st French Empire.

That is a whole art medium to itself - the decoration and state iconography of bronze gun tubes!

[Spartacus]

I have PM`d nicofig as he has some webpages of interest.

Meanwhile I have found a handful and stuck them here :-



http://www.flickr.com/photos/terry_and_ ... 139011650/

[Spartacus]

Update.

Rick at Flag Dude has said he will do them so maybe a runner to buy readymade.