Impact Pike?

[pudzy]

Sorry about this! Another question!

Do troops armed with pike count as impact foot?

In the ECW starter lists in the FOGR rulebook they are listed merely as having 'pike' so I assumed that they don't count as impact troops.

In the combat example on page 133 this would appear to be the case as the Dutch, who lose the impact round of combat, only take one modifier to their cohesion test "-1 for suffering >= 1 hit per 3 bases".

If the pike were classed as impact troops then, as I read the factors, the Dutch would also suffer a second -1 modifier for "having lost impact phase combat even partly against impact foot" taking the total modifiers to -2.

However in the full ECW lists in the Wars of Religion supplement the pike armed foot are listed as having both impact pike and melee pike capabilty so I would read that as meaning that they are classed as impact foot.

I note that this does seem to be the case in other lists as well. Pike in the starter armies are listed as just having 'pike' wheras in the full lists they are listed as having both impact and melee pike.

In the starter lists pistol armed horse are listed as having both impact amd melee pistol.

Is the intention that the pike armed troops in the starter armies are somehow different from those in the full lists or, more likely, have I missed something again?

[deadtorius]

don't think Pike are impact troops. They are no longer shock troops either.

[shadowdragon]

"Impact Foot" is a separate capability that will be listed under the impact column of capabilities. For example, with the Early Louis XIV French list, "Guard and Vieux infantry" and "Petits Vieux and other infantry" MF muskets have an "Impact Foot" capability for the impact phase and nothing for the melee phase. The HF Pike bases have a "Pike" capability listed for both impact and melee phases.

There are others in the lists, like the "Redshanks" warriors under the Confederate Irish which are also "impact foot".

So, if it's not explicitly listed as such in the army list...they aren't "impact foot".

[Blathergut]

>However in the full ECW lists in the Wars of Religion supplement the pike armed foot are listed as having both impact pike and melee pike capabilty so I would read that as meaning that they are classed as impact foot.<

The only troops I noticed who consistently were classed as "impact foot" are various French musket*. Everybody else has "pikes" in the impact phase and "pikes" in the melee phase, but this does not make them "impact foot."

[shadowdragon]

>However in the full ECW lists in the Wars of Religion supplement the pike armed foot are listed as having both impact pike and melee pike capabilty so I would read that as meaning that they are classed as impact foot.<

The only troops I noticed who consistently were classed as "impact foot" are various French musket*. Everybody else has "pikes" in the impact phase and "pikes" in the melee phase, but this does not make them "impact foot."

Blathergut is correct, that does not make the Pike "impact foot", it means they have a "Pike" capability that they can use in the impact phase. In the glossary of capabilities on page 167:

"Impact Foot"; Phase = Impact, Description = "Foot relying on a fierce charge to disrupt the enemy at impact. Examples: C17th French foot. Aztec and Indoneisan foot warriors."

"Pike"; Phase = Impact, Melee, Description = "Foot armed with long 2-handed pikes and forming a concentrated pike block. Most such troops are also armed with swords - the Pike melee POA already takes this into account. They never use "Swordsmen" POA". In sense one could say that the pike capability for the impact phase is "Impact Pike" and the one under the melee column is "Melee Pike", however, the implication on page 167 is that if troops have "pike" it counts both at impact and in melee. Note that this isn't the case for "Pistol", so there are explicit references to "Impact Pistol" and "Melee Pistol".

"Impact Foot" and "Pike" are different capabilities, just like they are in FoGAM. Both are capabilities that have POA implications in during an impact close combat.

[SirGarnet]

Yes, Impact Foot is just those marked as "Impact Foot" and applies in Impact. It does not mean "Foot who have any kind of Impact capability".

There is no Impact Pike - there is just "Pike" which at times will counts in both Impact and Melee.

[pudzy]

Thanks for the explanation(s).

I take it that this also means that Cavaliers and Horse armed with impact pistol are not actually counted as impact troops either.

[Blathergut]

Thanks for the explanation(s).

I take it that this also means that Cavaliers and Horse armed with impact pistol are not actually counted as impact troops either.

Correct. There are some mounted that, when you look in the Impact column, show 'impact mounted' (the last French list, for example). Cavaliers and Determined Horse are 'shockl troops.'