Horse vs Determined Horse

[khurasan_miniatures]

I haven't been able to digest all the differences yet, but there must be a major difference because of the major points difference!

Can someone highlight for me what the major advantages of determined horse are over Horse? Thanks!

[david53]

I haven't been able to digest all the differences yet, but there must be a major difference because of the major points difference!

Can someone highlight for me what the major advantages of determined horse are over Horse? Thanks!

The get two dice in melee's compared to horse getting one dice

[hood_mick]

Determined horse get two dice per base in melee, where horse only get one die per base.

[timmy1]

In addition to the above, Determined Horse only count Front Rank bases, Horse count first 2 Ranks.

[khurasan_miniatures]

Thanks guys.

So DH usually fight in just one rank?

And horse are as good as DH if in two ranks?

Which one's actually better on the tabletop?

[nickdives]

if 4 DH in one rank hit 4 H in 2 ranks the dice will be equal but in the melee the DH should get 2 overlaps, and hopefully another POA for being very nicely painted!

[timmy1]

DH will usually win most times but it will be something like 60 points of DH v 36 points of H. Assuming the capabilities, armour, and quality are the same, the impact is equal. If that has the same effect, the melee will be 6 dice at 4 for the DH vs 4 dice at 4 for the H.

[david53]

DH will usually win most times but it will be something like 60 points of DH v 36 points of H. Assuming the capabilities, armour, and quality are the same, the impact is equal. If that has the same effect, the melee will be 6 dice at 4 for the DH vs 4 dice at 4 for the H.

Of couse if you use two cuirasiarer BGs to take on the DH you have a chance of winning, especially if all other factors are the same

[khurasan_miniatures]

How about for very good Horse like the Imperialist Cuirassier in the Early TYW list who are Elite and Heavily Armoured? Can they hold their own against say superior armoured DH?

[timmy1]

That is interesting! the DH are now 84 points a BG vs 76 for the H, assuming both are Impact and Melee pistol.

Impact is 4 dice at 4s, DH re-roll 1s, H re-roll 1s and 2s. If the DH inflict 2 hits and the H 3, the DH will take a CT at -1 and a DR needing 4 or better not to lose a base.

IF, and it is a BIG IF, the DH are DIS but no base loss, then it becomes the DH have 4 dice (down from 6) at 5, re-roll 1s, and the H have 4 dice at 4, re-rolling 1s and 2s. This REALLY favours the H. It all depends, do you feel lucky on the impact? If however the DH lose a base and don't disrupt at impact, they are 5 dice hitting on 5s (re-roll 1s) vs the H who roll 4 dice at 4s (re-rolling 1s and 2s). Slightly in favour of the H but I would not want to live on the difference.

[khurasan_miniatures]

So are Horse basically caracoling pistolier types? Strange that even pappenheim's kurassiere are so rated, considering how hard his cavalry charged (a tactic he had learned from service with the Poles). I assume thats what the elite horse are. Certainly some regiments in imperial (and other) service were less aggressive than others, but some were quite good indeed.

[nikgaukroger]

So are Horse basically caracoling pistolier types?

No

Some are, but not all. You'll be better off if you buy a rule set you know

[khurasan_miniatures]

Thanks, have the set of course (you got my order!), just wondering based on timmy's summary of an action between Horse and Determined Horse, even if the Horse are higher morale and better armoured, which appeared to create the same effect as the old chargers/caracolers distinction. I'm glad to read that I'll see I'm wrong once I finish reading the rules!

[nikgaukroger]

Thanks, have the set of course (you got my order!), just wondering based on timmy's summary of an action between Horse and Determined Horse, even if the Horse are higher morale and better armoured, which appeared to create the same effect as the old chargers/caracolers distinction. I'm glad to read that I'll see I'm wrong once I finish reading the rules!

Horse can be "chargers" or "caracollers" - which depends on the capabilities. If they have Impact Pistol they will not have Shooting Pistol/Carbine and the capability they ahve will determine how they fight.

Determined Horse will usually have an Impact rather than Shooting capability and so will usually be "chargers".

[pudzy]

On a simliar note to this can someone explain what the differences re between Cavaliers as in the ECW Royalist armies and Determined Horse as in the Parliament armies?

[LambertSimnel]

On a simliar note to this can someone explain what the differences re between Cavaliers as in the ECW Royalist armies and Determined Horse as in the Parliament armies?

The difference is that it is easier to stop Determined Horse from pursuing routed enemy. Cavaliers can't stop pursuit if still in contact, and need to make a CMT to stop pursuit if contact has been broken; Determined Horse can stop with a CMT if still in contact, and can automatically stop pursuit if contact has been broken.

[pudzy]

Thanks. No difference in combat then.

[deadtorius]

No difference in combat then.

no difference, in combat they are the same. Unless of course one of them has swords and the other pistol then you get the old check the chart for who gets the POA thing.