In a recent game the following situation arose:
Roman Cav unit, 2 across - 2 Deep is charged by my Bedouin LH, 2 across - 2 deep. At impact, leftmost Roman base is contacted by rightmost Bedouin base. In the manouver phase the units conform so that each has one base in frontal base to base contact. Neither damages the other. A "stick".
On next impact phase, a second Bedouin unit wishes to charge into contact with uncovered (leftmost Roman) base. Opponent says this is not permissible since units joining a melee can only do so in an overlap position. QUESTION #1 (does such an uncovered base count as an OVERLAP?) QUESTION #2 (if not, should the second Bedouin LH have moved into contact in manouver rather than impact?) or QUESTION #3 (is this a situation in which the second Bedouin unit simply cannot join the combat?)
Thanks for the help in clarifying this one.
Newbie Question - Overlap?
Moderators: hammy, philqw78, terrys, Slitherine Core, Field of Glory Design, Field of Glory Moderators
You can only move (in the movement phase) into contact with enemy if you do so as an overlap.
If you wish to charge (in the impact phase) into cotact with the enemy then this charge must be a legal charge.
Charging into the base that is overlapping your other BG is perfectly legal although why you would want to be engaging Roman cavalry with Numidian light horse is another issue.
If you wish to charge (in the impact phase) into cotact with the enemy then this charge must be a legal charge.
Charging into the base that is overlapping your other BG is perfectly legal although why you would want to be engaging Roman cavalry with Numidian light horse is another issue.
Thanks for the quick response Hammy.
Just to clarify then; either movement into the melee (impact or manouver) would have been permissible if done in the correct sequence.
As to why I did it......desperation. I was running Arab Conquest against Middle Imperial Romans. On the flank in question, LH was all I had to try and hold up his advance. That said, it was lance armed, superior, swordsman, LH with a general against average, armoured, Roman cav with light spear. It actually went 5 rounds with neither side losing a base before I failed a CT and fragmented.
Just to clarify then; either movement into the melee (impact or manouver) would have been permissible if done in the correct sequence.
As to why I did it......desperation. I was running Arab Conquest against Middle Imperial Romans. On the flank in question, LH was all I had to try and hold up his advance. That said, it was lance armed, superior, swordsman, LH with a general against average, armoured, Roman cav with light spear. It actually went 5 rounds with neither side losing a base before I failed a CT and fragmented.
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deadtorius
- Field Marshal - Me 410A
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The Roman unit that was an overlap and was not frontally engaged you can only contacted by charging.
To move into an overlap during movement you move up beside a unit frontally contacted and end in side base to side base contact with your friendly guy, so that you are front corner to front corner with the enemy. You can also move off from this overlap position any time you wish to.
I find it odd that your LH managed to survive 5 turns and not lose a base against Cav. Your LH fights with 1 die per 2 for not fighting other lights the Romans would get 4 dice back. Must have been some pretty bad rolls on the part of the Roman.
To move into an overlap during movement you move up beside a unit frontally contacted and end in side base to side base contact with your friendly guy, so that you are front corner to front corner with the enemy. You can also move off from this overlap position any time you wish to.
I find it odd that your LH managed to survive 5 turns and not lose a base against Cav. Your LH fights with 1 die per 2 for not fighting other lights the Romans would get 4 dice back. Must have been some pretty bad rolls on the part of the Roman.
Thanks for the clarification. I understand it now.
As to the 5 turns, I should have said 4 turns. On the fifth I actually did fail the CT. I survived with only two dice to his 4 since he rolled poorly and I got rerolls on both combat dice (1's and 2's due to general making them ELITE) and CT's (1's since they were SUPERIOR).
Not something I would recommend but it allowed me to jam up his flanking move. Better lucky than good I guess.
As to the 5 turns, I should have said 4 turns. On the fifth I actually did fail the CT. I survived with only two dice to his 4 since he rolled poorly and I got rerolls on both combat dice (1's and 2's due to general making them ELITE) and CT's (1's since they were SUPERIOR).
Not something I would recommend but it allowed me to jam up his flanking move. Better lucky than good I guess.
Actually that is not that bad a fight. I can see why you wanted to get the second BG in there. If you had you may even have won.Anleiher wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I understand it now.
As to the 5 turns, I should have said 4 turns. On the fifth I actually did fail the CT. I survived with only two dice to his 4 since he rolled poorly and I got rerolls on both combat dice (1's and 2's due to general making them ELITE) and CT's (1's since they were SUPERIOR).
Not something I would recommend but it allowed me to jam up his flanking move. Better lucky than good I guess.
Yes but he should have waited and put them both in together.hammy wrote:Actually that is not that bad a fight. I can see why you wanted to get the second BG in there. If you had you may even have won.Anleiher wrote:Thanks for the clarification. I understand it now.
As to the 5 turns, I should have said 4 turns. On the fifth I actually did fail the CT. I survived with only two dice to his 4 since he rolled poorly and I got rerolls on both combat dice (1's and 2's due to general making them ELITE) and CT's (1's since they were SUPERIOR).
Not something I would recommend but it allowed me to jam up his flanking move. Better lucky than good I guess.
Re: Newbie Question - Overlap?
Is your opponent a beginner also ? Sounds like he's pulled a fast one on you a couple of times. If you are both beginners and you can't find something in the rules during a game, I would suggest either doing the obvious (which in this case would be to let the second unit join the melee in some way) or dicing for it, then sorting it out after.Anleiher wrote: Opponent says this is not permissible ....
We are indeed both newbies. He is also an attorney, so I am at a disadvantage from the beginning. That said, he is an honest guy---as attorneys go.
As to putting both units in a the same time, I tried. The second unit failed its test to charge non-skirmishers frontally. The first unit of course passed its test and went in alone.
As to putting both units in a the same time, I tried. The second unit failed its test to charge non-skirmishers frontally. The first unit of course passed its test and went in alone.
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philqw78
- Chief of Staff - Elite Maus
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they cannot evade if they are expanded into by the unit they overlap.Jilu wrote:try this next time
when preparing to charge check if you can add a unit in overlap (no impact) even if LF it will give you more dice... and if it is LF they can evade if they are charged.
It does not count beyond enemy first element. Only bases touching that element and behind the one touching it may supply dice in overlap.Jilu wrote:ah yes overlap does not only count corner to corner in front but also if you are beyond his 1st element...
phil
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
putting the arg into argumentative, except for the lists I check where there is no argument!
Guys -
I play in the same group, and while our attorney friend is not a bad guy, (Aggie and chosen profession notwithstanding) he won't budge unless we can point to specific pages in the rules for support.
That said, would y'all mind posting the pages (or ranges) where we can find the above?
Cheers.
I play in the same group, and while our attorney friend is not a bad guy, (Aggie and chosen profession notwithstanding) he won't budge unless we can point to specific pages in the rules for support.
That said, would y'all mind posting the pages (or ranges) where we can find the above?
Cheers.
Your friend is confusing the "Moving into contact" rule on P75 with the charging rules on P52 & 53
In the situation described the second BG of light horse is charging (in the impact phase) into contact. It cannot move (in the movement phase) into front edge to front edge contact P75 but it is legal to charge the front edge of a base that is part of a BG that is already in combat P52. There is nothing in the charging rules (and it is charging you are concerned with) that even mentions overlaps (all mention of overlaps is in the movement rules).
Hope that helps.
In the situation described the second BG of light horse is charging (in the impact phase) into contact. It cannot move (in the movement phase) into front edge to front edge contact P75 but it is legal to charge the front edge of a base that is part of a BG that is already in combat P52. There is nothing in the charging rules (and it is charging you are concerned with) that even mentions overlaps (all mention of overlaps is in the movement rules).
Hope that helps.