A few more questions

[hammy]

Thursday's game brought up some more questions.

1) What happens if the player with initiative selects a compulsary piece and then all of the terrain of the other compulsary type so that the other player can't select his compulsary piece?

2) Can a terrain piece be adjusted partly or wholy off table?

3) Can a terrain piece be adjusted onto another terrain piece or piece of open ground?

4) When an uneven formation turns 180 does it reform to the frontage of the inital rear or does the initial rear widen to the same width as the initial front?

5) In the interbound what order do generals move in?

6) When a BG made up of 2 ranks of Crossbow/Defensive spear/- is charged does it count as two ranks of spear or one of spear with overhead shooting from the second rank or two ranks of spear with the second rank simultaneously shooting and using their spears?

I also have a bunch of intersting situations that I photographed but they can wait until the weekend.

Cheers

Hammy

[rbodleyscott]

1) What happens if the player with initiative selects a compulsary piece and then all of the terrain of the other compulsary type so that the other player can't select his compulsary piece?

I guess the intention is that the other player takes his compulsory piece before the first picks his non-compulsories. Needs a small wording change.

2) Can a terrain piece be adjusted partly or wholy off table?

No

3) Can a terrain piece be adjusted onto another terrain piece

Only if it is a permitted superimposition.

or piece of open ground?

No

4) When an uneven formation turns 180 does it reform to the frontage of the inital rear or does the initial rear widen to the same width as the initial front?

Needs clarifying but I would say that a BG only has one frontage - i.e. its widest. So the latter.

5) In the interbound what order do generals move in?

Who knows. Needs clarification.

6) When a BG made up of 2 ranks of Crossbow/Defensive spear/- is charged does it count as two ranks of spear or one of spear with overhead shooting from the second rank or two ranks of spear with the second rank simultaneously shooting and using their spears?

The intention is to change all such BGs in the lists so that they are 1/2 Crossbow/DSp, 1/2 Crossbow (as in the new Ming list). Thus, they will normally only have 1 rank with DSp (in impact phase only). So:
1) The only effect of the DSp is to cancel lancers or heavy chariots POA.
2) No Sp POA
3) 2nd rank shooting support as per normal

[shall]

Quote:
5) In the interbound what order do generals move in?

Who knows. Needs clarification.

Previous bounds moving player first - not that it often matters - is what we have always done. Probqably need sepcifying his way.

[hammy]

6) When a BG made up of 2 ranks of Crossbow/Defensive spear/- is charged does it count as two ranks of spear or one of spear with overhead shooting from the second rank or two ranks of spear with the second rank simultaneously shooting and using their spears?

The intention is to change all such BGs in the lists so that they are 1/2 Crossbow/DSp, 1/2 Crossbow (as in the new Ming list). Thus, they will normally only have 1 rank with DSp (in impact phase only). So:
1) The only effect of the DSp is to cancel lancers or heavy chariots POA.
2) No Sp POA
3) 2nd rank shooting support as per normal

When I first read this answer I thought, fine no problem that solves the issue but...

What happens if a clever tricksy cometition type player noting the fact his opponent doesn't have lancers decides to deploy his 8 base BG with 2 files of two deep defensive spear and crossbow and 2 files of two deep just crossbow?

You could of course put something in to force BG formations to be sensible but without such a rule I can see this causing an issue.

Hammy

[shall]

quote="rbodleyscott"]
hammy wrote:

Quote:
6) When a BG made up of 2 ranks of Crossbow/Defensive spear/- is charged does it count as two ranks of spear or one of spear with overhead shooting from the second rank or two ranks of spear with the second rank simultaneously shooting and using their spears?

The intention is to change all such BGs in the lists so that they are 1/2 Crossbow/DSp, 1/2 Crossbow (as in the new Ming list). Thus, they will normally only have 1 rank with DSp (in impact phase only). So:
1) The only effect of the DSp is to cancel lancers or heavy chariots POA.
2) No Sp POA
3) 2nd rank shooting support as per normal

When I first read this answer I thought, fine no problem that solves the issue but...

What happens if a clever tricksy cometition type player noting the fact his opponent doesn't have lancers decides to deploy his 8 base BG with 2 files of two deep defensive spear and crossbow and 2 files of two deep just crossbow?

You could of course put something in to force BG formations to be sensible but without such a rule I can see this causing an issue.

Hammy

I think it works rather well at present. My byzantines have BGs pf 4 Def Sp and 4 Bw. They have 2 formations that are useful:

1. 4 dp with 4 bw behind (decent defensive formation vs mounted with good supporting fire - 4 wide
2. 2 dp spear with bows behind (good vs enemy foot troops) - 2 wide

But if you get hit in the wrong formation by the wrong thing then it causes trouble in both situations. The same will I expect be true of the Chinese.

As RBS says we can then restrict soem formations if we feel its necessary.

Si

[hammy]

I think it works rather well at present. My byzantines have BGs pf 4 Def Sp and 4 Bw. They have 2 formations that are useful:

1. 4 dp with 4 bw behind (decent defensive formation vs mounted with good supporting fire - 4 wide
2. 2 dp spear with bows behind (good vs enemy foot troops) - 2 wide

But if you get hit in the wrong formation by the wrong thing then it causes trouble in both situations. The same will I expect be true of the Chinese.

As RBS says we can then restrict soem formations if we feel its necessary.

Si

I don't think that 2 wide is too much of a problem appart from the fact that in this case you would have the front two ranks with D spear and crossbow and the rear two with crossbow only so you would end up with the situation I asked about in the first place where a second rank base would both provide a spear POA and defensive shooting at the same time. What would IMO be silly would be to have a four wide formation with half of it two deep D spear/crossbow and half crossbow only.

I hope that makes sense

Hammy

[rbodleyscott]

I don't think that 2 wide is too much of a problem appart from the fact that in this case you would have the front two ranks with D spear and crossbow and the rear two with crossbow only so you would end up with the situation I asked about in the first place where a second rank base would both provide a spear POA and defensive shooting at the same time. What would IMO be silly would be to have a four wide formation with half of it two deep D spear/crossbow and half crossbow only.

I hope that makes sense

Hammy

It does indeed, and clearly we will need to restrict the formations such BGs can adopt.

[sagji]

I don't think that 2 wide is too much of a problem appart from the fact that in this case you would have the front two ranks with D spear and crossbow and the rear two with crossbow only so you would end up with the situation I asked about in the first place where a second rank base would both provide a spear POA and defensive shooting at the same time. What would IMO be silly would be to have a four wide formation with half of it two deep D spear/crossbow and half crossbow only.

I hope that makes sense

Hammy

It does indeed, and clearly we will need to restrict the formations such BGs can adopt.

I suspect it will be much easier to simply remove the benefit - by listing the relevant troups as "Defensive Spear*" where the * indicates only 1 rank counts.
This allows the Nikephorian Byzantines to be HF -,DS*,Sp at the front an MF B,DS*,- at the back - to produce the correct effect when charged in the rear (not sure about the cost effectiveness of the formation.)