What will be the popular lists from the first book?

[shakespear]

Im a big ECW fan but pass that what will most people allready have armies for?

[david53]

Im a big ECW fan but pass that what will most people allready have armies for?

I would think 30 Years War Swedish and NMA not that I will be playing either

[nikgaukroger]

NMA has to be one of the dullest lists in the book - just like their historical prototypes

[donkiesrus2003]

I have TYW Swedes, don't know what all the fuss about the cavalry being under rated is. Went up against Early TYW german catholics, if used properly the cavalry is at worst evens with their German opponents including the heavily armoured cuirassier except for re-rolls at impact and melee however the Swedish cavalry will not suffer any die losses due to casualties unlike their opponents. The Swedish infantry is at a ++ at impact then at evens the rest of the time. The end result was a very one sided victory over the Germans. I do not imagine many folk wanting to fight an army that good so I don't see it getting used often.

[Skullzgrinda]

I do not imagine many folk wanting to fight an army that good so I don't see it getting used often.

Eh?

[david53]

however the Swedish cavalry will not suffer any die losses due to casualties unlike their opponents.

Strange that I beat a unit of swedes cavalry just took 2 BGs to do it, also if your swedish and lose a base you lose two dice just like Knights in Am

[david53]

I do not imagine many folk wanting to fight an army that good so I don't see it getting used often.

Eh?

I think they'll be all over the tables...

[shakespear]

Which Swedish list? Early or Later?

[donkiesrus2003]

Shakespear the army is Early Swedish they have the salvo capability.

David and skullzgrinda: loads of people would want to use them but not many will want to be on the opposite end of them so outwith competitions people playing for fun are not going to be too keen to face them unless they are sitting behind fortifications.

[Scrumpy]

How do they fare against tercios ?

Wait and see, someone will devise a way that the Swedes & NMA will meet their demises eventually.

[donkiesrus2003]

The Swedish player will be aiming to impact on the Tercio with the entire brigade from the start thus getting.

Against a Tercio:
Impact
A Swedish brigade with regimental gun that closes on a Tercio rolls 6 die at ++ and one at 0 for the regimental gun.
The Tercio gets 6 die at --.

Assuming the Swedish brigade wins and does at least 4 hits on an Early Tercio or 3 hits on a Late Tercio and 2 more than dished out (This is not a big ask given the number of die and factors) then the Tercio's CMT is a net -2 (in the absence of a commander) a good chance for droping cohesion(1 in 6 of droping 2 levels and an additional 5 in 9 of dropping 1 level).

Melee:
The Swedish brigade will get 6 at 0 less any losses (not likely)
The Early Tercio will get 7 die at 0 (less any for cohesion drop) until an Early Tercio loses 4 bases and is only fighting on one side its front rank strength will not drop.
The Late Tercio get 6 die at 0 (less any for cohesion drop) until a Late Tercio loses 3 bases and is only fighting on one side its front rank strength will not drop although it has the same frontage as a Swedish Brigade.

As long as the Swedish foot win the impact and make their opponent drop they should be okay.

On Sunday one Swedish Brigade lost the impact and was eaten by an Early Tercio, the other 2 brigades that fough Tercios demolished both a Late and Early Tercio.

[david53]

Which Swedish list? Early or Later?

I would say the early one before they lost all the good infantry types.

[timmy1]

Don

It is not as simple as it seems. Salvo Swedes on their own get badly shot up on the way in and if they don't win the initial impact can come off really badly.

The Cav are the weak link. There are loads of better Cav out there and anyone with LH is going to really slow the Swedish Brigades then swan off an make a pain of themselves around your mounted.

I think that many armies with better mounted will be able to hit the flanks of your Brigades while you charge in to contact. If you win the initial impact you are fine. Against Early Tercios you might be ok, later ones might be a struggle - you lose a base and you are down to 6 base BG - the ET needs to lose 3. It makes a huge difference.

The points invested in 3 Swedish Brigades make a huge hole in 800.

If you sit there passive against Swedes you will get hurt. If you refuse against them and manouvre they are no killers.

[timmy1]

Nik

Hey! I like the NMA (and their historical protoype).

[timmy1]

To answer the original question, I will say Swedish are most likely. Early as favourite.

[Skullzgrinda]

Shakespear the army is Early Swedish they have the salvo capability.

David and skullzgrinda: loads of people would want to use them but not many will want to be on the opposite end of them so outwith competitions people playing for fun are not going to be too keen to face them unless they are sitting behind fortifications.

Gotcha. I typically play in tournaments, so your comment puzzled me. I figured from your description the Swedes would proliferate like Late Hungarians and Christian Nubians in the post DBM era, or Seleucids, Late Romans and Teutonic Knights in the pre DBM era.

[shakespear]

What is the difference between early and late ecw royalists?

[Blathergut]

NMA has to be one of the dullest lists in the book - just like their historical prototypes

oooooohhhhh great...I'm up to 600pts worth of redcoated pike/shot....!!! ...

[Spartacus]

ECW for me as I already have early Royalist and Parliamentarian and also a Scots Covenanter army. I have rebased the first 2 and will soon have the Scots done.
They are about 20 years old and consist of mainly Friekorp and Mikes Models. I am replacing all the pikes with 50mm wire as they had suffered badly over the years.

[rbodleyscott]

What is the difference between early and late ecw royalists?

Mainly that the early ones count as Musket* because of shortage of muskets.