Three "logic" bugs

[acarhj]

I found 3 bugs in the way the computer reacts.

1) It is my understanding that suppressed units cannot return fire. Occasionally, a tank will become suppressed, return fire and then retreat. Infantry invariably do not return fire if suppressed.

2) It is my understanding that a vehicle will not react to shooting that is behind it. Lets say fire at a unit that is behind an enemy vehicle. I am behind the vehicle as well. The vehicle will turn and shoot.

3) LOS. A vehicle is on top of a hill and shoots during its turn. It then scoots back behind a building. The enemy takes its turn and does not climb the hill. On my turn I should be able to come out on tpp of the hill and attack from concealment as it has been one full turn since the enemy spotted me. Instead, the enemy reacts to my move even though he is on lower ground and, therefore, should not be able to see me until I shoot.

[IainMcNeil]

1) It is my understanding that suppressed units cannot return fire. Occasionally, a tank will become suppressed, return fire and then retreat. Infantry invariably do not return fire if suppressed.
>>> This is not the case. A suppressed tank may return fire. The aim here is to stop a suppressed King Tiger being something you treat with contempt. Suppressed tanks only get one shot and at a reduced chance to hit.

2) It is my understanding that a vehicle will not react to shooting that is behind it. Lets say fire at a unit that is behind an enemy vehicle. I am behind the vehicle as well. The vehicle will turn and shoot.
>>> This is not the case. Every unit has a rating on how likely it is to react to a unit moving behind it. Once under fire things change and they are much more likely to react. Chance to react is based on vehciles visibility (open topped are more likely to react) and turn speed (turreted units mroe likely to react).

3) LOS. A vehicle is on top of a hill and shoots during its turn. It then scoots back behind a building. The enemy takes its turn and does not climb the hill. On my turn I should be able to come out on tpp of the hill and attack from concealment as it has been one full turn since the enemy spotted me. Instead, the enemy reacts to my move even though he is on lower ground and, therefore, should not be able to see me until I shoot.
>>> It depends whether another of his units can see you. Without seeing teh exact case its impossible to comment on this.

Hope that helps!

[acarhj]

1) It is my understanding that suppressed units cannot return fire. Occasionally, a tank will become suppressed, return fire and then retreat. Infantry invariably do not return fire if suppressed.
>>> This is not the case. A suppressed tank may return fire. The aim here is to stop a suppressed King Tiger being something you treat with contempt. Suppressed tanks only get one shot and at a reduced chance to hit.

2) It is my understanding that a vehicle will not react to shooting that is behind it. Lets say fire at a unit that is behind an enemy vehicle. I am behind the vehicle as well. The vehicle will turn and shoot.
>>> This is not the case. Every unit has a rating on how likely it is to react to a unit moving behind it. Once under fire things change and they are much more likely to react. Chance to react is based on vehciles visibility (open topped are more likely to react) and turn speed (turreted units mroe likely to react).

Thanks. Good information to know.

3) LOS. A vehicle is on top of a hill and shoots during its turn. It then scoots back behind a building. The enemy takes its turn and does not climb the hill. On my turn I should be able to come out on tpp of the hill and attack from concealment as it has been one full turn since the enemy spotted me. Instead, the enemy reacts to my move even though he is on lower ground and, therefore, should not be able to see me until I shoot.
>>> It depends whether another of his units can see you. Without seeing teh exact case its impossible to comment on this.

No other unit could see me. I had cleared the hill and the tank was absolutely out of LOS (surrounded on three sides by buildings and no enemy to the front) at the beginning of its next turn.

John

[IainMcNeil]

There must be a reason why he could see - without knowing the position of all enemy units you cant be sure what he can see. Maybe another hill nearby could see to your hill. If your unit fired last turn it reveales LOS. If he has aircraft it reveals LOS. If he had hidden untis you coudl not see he could have LOS.

I've never seen anything like this so think it's unlikely to be a bug, but you never know.

[acarhj]

There must be a reason why he could see - without knowing the position of all enemy units you cant be sure what he can see. Maybe another hill nearby could see to your hill. If your unit fired last turn it reveales LOS. If he has aircraft it reveals LOS. If he had hidden untis you coudl not see he could have LOS.

I've never seen anything like this so think it's unlikely to be a bug, but you never know.

Hi Iain,

I was on the hill of the Citadel on the edge closest to where the secondary attack would occur. There are no enemy hills around. I occupied the buildings immediatly around the area with infantry etc. There is no way they had a spotter on the hill. Not a chance. On top of that, since I retreated into the village, I was surrounded on three sides by buildings. So again, I did not draw an assault which means they were not occupying the buildings behind me. Absolutly no chance that they could have spotted me.

1)The sequence worked like this. I fired from the edge of the hill. Return fires etc.
2) on the same turn, I retreat into the building complex to take cover.
3) He trys to attack but does not get up the hill and is destroyed. (75mm Half Track)
4) The next turn, I roll out to attack him from the edge anmd get attacked by a waiting Puma.

It did happen just that way. i don't think it happens all the time but it does happen.

John

[LOGAN5]

sounds like 2 unrelated battles, you killed his halftrack then next turn you stepped out into the line of fire of a puma... you are probably correct that they did not spot you until you moved out into his LOS then he fired

[IainMcNeil]

If you walked out in front of a waiting Puma it woudl of course fire at you. I'm not sure what the issues is?

[PirateJock_Wargamer]

I think acarhj's point is that for the second combat, i.e. with the Puma, he had not fired that turn and he was on a hill so he would not expect the Puma to have been able to see him until he fired - based on the assumption 'on hill & not fired = hidden'.

As the Puma was able to see and fire on him, does that mean once you have fired from a hill all enemy units within LOS at ground level are able to see you?

Follow on questions ...

• When/how does the ability to go hidden on a hill get reset?
  If enemy units are on another hill within LOS range can they see your unit even if you haven't fired and are hidden to units at ground level?

[IainMcNeil]

Ah I see - in that case it would not see you so someone else must have. If you want to send a screenshot we can take a look but I'm 99.9% sure LOS works correctly and you maybe missing something.

Note - slopes do not count as hills, only hill tops.