B reak off move problems

[Xiggy]

I personally think they need to look at break off moves again. I just had a situation that happened in the woods, so everyone has limited move capabilities. The mounted unit moved 8 hexes. (exceeded its movement allowance in the woods by a lot and ran thru 2 lines of enemy. If a person was moving the cav unit, they would move 2 or 3 hexes and would have had to charge one of the infantry units. But if could not charge the foot, since the turned 180 degrees to the rear. They ran through a 1 hex gap in the lines and of course ran behind my lines which they would not have been able to do. If a unit is going to break off, it needs to at least follow normal move allowances. Like turns, move lense baseed on what terrain they are in and honor zones of control. If a person could not make the move the breakoff move shouldfail. Alos, any unit that they can not disorder should not force a unit to not break off. Putting Light foot or horse behind a mounted unit canceling break offs is a bit gamey. As far as game buggs, breakoff moves are the biggest issue left, now that evades are going to be changed.

[deadtorius]

Yes the break offs are silly at times and you do end up with a fresh enemy in your rear all set for that rear charge on you at times. I think it comes down to the hex system, on the TT you can only move directly to your rear in a break off. I think the hexes give you 2 rear hexes in your arc and the break offs can get pretty weird alright. They are a bit better than they were though.

[Scutarii]

Well, today i see 2 cavalry break off that start in front of my line and end in my rear... only one hex not covered and 2 enemy cavalry units appears in my rear and my units (2 pike units) do ZOC in their way

Its time to fix break off and ZOC bugs because after 3 army packs is time

[TheGrayMouser]

I dont know why they simply make it so a unit cannot have a break off if impeded by an enemy zoc, or if during its break off it wont enter an enemy zoc to continue, even if that means a break off only gets the unit one hex away from the enemy it was just meleeing...

In one recent game an enemy cavalry broke off 3 hexes and entered a gap between my legions that were almost in a box shape! It was quite comical because i had 6 units (at least) that could have attacked on my turn and was guranteed 2 rear hits regardless of the cav's facing.... Even if i had let him alone he could not have escaped because you cant move adjacent to an enemy.

[Xiggy]

The computer breaks all the human move restrictions. I had 1 unit turn around make a hard left turn, move 9 hexes and then face forward after running a gauntlet between 2 line of troops and then facing forward behind some troops. I wish they would make it follow normal movement or even evade movement restrictions. It is crazy what happens.

[Triarii]

First and foremost I find Slitherenes patching and development of the game exemplary.

However some break off pathways just seem intuitively wrong.
These strange break off pathways are what I find most frequently frustrating (when to my disadvantage) or embarrasing (when to my advantage); but that frequency is very low and the irritation is still minor

My problem is with the pathways not the concept of break off.
In the last month I have played about 15 games and seen 3 memorably strange break off pathways :-

• a 10 hex break off for cataphracts where the pathway was a tremendous zig zag through several enemy units.
  a game turning break off in RoR where (because of friendly units directly behind) one fragmented cataphract unit broke off along an enemy HF line but behind a line of enemy LF allowing 4 LF units to be trapped in sequence by an advancing phalanx line - 8 break points gone next turn.
  a game turning break off in SoA where a cavalry unit broke off towards the enemy (again because of friendly units blocking most likely pathway) and was set up for a rear attack on a line of HF all committed to melee - a 'pack of cards' rout followed. I found this one particularly hard on my opponent who had been in a relatively good position prior to my good fortune.

I think a restriction on break off pathways through enemy ZOC or consecutive enemy ZOCs coupled with restricting break off pathways to normal move allowance would reduce the low incidence of strange break off pathways, making them even less frequent. A look at the feasibility of that gets my vote.

[ericdoman1]

I have PM Keith the designer, twice on break offs so the more the merrier.

[Xiggy]

I think if they use the evade path movement restrictions it would solve most of the problems.

[ericdoman1]

Of course it is all down to the designer and the software/toolset. I am not so sure that the designers etc reads these pages, would be best to contact technical department or the designers themselves.

[Mercutio]

I think if they use the evade path movement restrictions it would solve most of the problems.

I agree this would be preferable. However, I have seen some crazy evades too

[Morbio]

I agree with all the recent posts.

There does need to be a restriction in terms of 'ZOC' (yes, I know there is no ZOC in the game, but it explains the situation) whether that is no moving through ZOC or some limit to the amount.

There does need to be a restriction of movement length. A unit break-off should not exceed it's normal MP - after all, the break-off is often meant to represent a movement away from melee so that it charge the unit again (although sometimes it is just to escape unfavourable melee). If it exceeds MP then it cannot do this.

A break-off should be allowed to go behind enemy lines - why shouldn't a unit officer take advantage of gap in the enemy lines if it presents itself.

Regarding Evades: There are still some crazy evades. Recently (current game). I attacked a LF on his flank and it evaded 1 or 2 hexes before entering his line of pikes, it then went completely down the line (about 10 hexes) before stopping on the other flank. Total movement was about 10 -12 hexes. Had it slightly deviated from its perfectly straight line then it could have stopped sooner. Alternatively it should have stopped before entering the line (IMO) if there is no exsit within MP restriction.

[Scutarii]

Well, the main problem with brak off maybe is that units rally dont have ZOC and really units donw know where is the best patch to evade and you can find things like the image where cavalry do a ride along the enemy line when they have a clear and obvious path to save reguard.... i think that is time to fix this things because kill the game experience
Cavalry unit start in the round and evade in the totally wrong way because they need 2 turns more to retreat behing main line and break the main line because need do a path for them.

[Skanvak]

"A break-off should be allowed to go behind enemy lines - why shouldn't a unit officer take advantage of gap in the enemy lines if it presents itself."

Yes, it can BUT the problem is that the break-off is done along a path that has NO gap, ie a normal move won't be allowed (and generally the fancy break off is made along 6-8 hex...

Unit should have a ZoC in their 2 front hex that prevent break off.

[Blathergut]

Break-offs seem to be one of those things, like the extreme variations in combat results ( I had one recent game where every combat was 13% to me and 1% to opponent!!), that we just have to accept as part of how the game is. It detracts at times from the quality of the gaming experience, but not horribly so.

[Skanvak]

I don't think so. The extreme combat result, thought annoying are, I think part of the randomn system, so unless you want a no randomn game there is no solution. The break off can be regulated to avoid this extreme result. The Zoc system would prevent most extreme break off.

[Scutarii]

Eeeeee well, when an unit break off is because have a bad feeling and think that is better leave poor foot soldiers do the dirty job, if an unit that leave combat do the opposite and go into enemy rear or as in the screenshot walk in front enemy line of battle without a gap to retreat when they have a clear gap behind...

And dont talk about "the powe of dices" because is the worst feature in the game, yesterday i see how my superior phalanx with another superior in his right, a toridaki in bad terrain on his left and another phalanx unit in his rear for rear support, in commander range was rape by an average medium foot unit armed with offensive spears and out of command range, 21% vs 1% isnt a random factor, is a stupid result because the casualties ONLY depend of dices all bonus dont mean nothing, they need change the casualties system with some features that prevent this totally extreme and non historical results in the best situation loss... 4-5% to inflict 1% is a bad but dont irreal result.

Well, SOMEDAY we can see a finish game and not a beta game because many of the features in FoG change like wind direction, today north, tomorrow south and next again to the north... well, break off is in the same way allways, never work fine

PD: i like FoG but even in small things need more work like in unit images, bored to see 2 units, one armed with spears, other with swords with the same image...

[Brigz]

Well, SOMEDAY we can see a finish game and not a beta game because many of the features in FoG change like wind direction, today north, tomorrow south and next again to the north... well, break off is in the same way allways, never work fine

This is my main gripe with the game. While I still think FOG is a great game, I'm gradually becoming disenchanted with it. The rules are changing so quickly and so often that it is impossible to know what is going on or how troops interact. Reading the Help files is no help at all because you don't know what has been changed. It just seems that it's just as well to throw your troops into battle blindly because there is no way to plan an effective tactic since just about anything can happen with any combination of troops. And the more I read these forums the more dissapointed I become.

I fell in love with this game when it first came out but that love is starting to diminish. I will probably buy the next expansion but if things don't change and this game doesn't start to solidify then I may have to drop out. The "Glory" in Field of Glory is just not there anymore. I have to give credit to the staff and designers at HexWar and Slitherine for the hard work they have put into this game but it appears to have become a Frankenstein that is out of control.