World War: AAR Plaid VS Supermax (No plaid allowed)

[richardsd]

the Dog fight lvl is a killer, but I have had clear weather all the way to the last Decmber turn and my opponent used it!

although miraculously I managed to win that game - not sure how though

I have to say I think you have this in the bag comfortably if he launches a 43 offensive in Russia - he will run out of PP's if nothing else

[supermax]

the Dog fight lvl is a killer, but I have had clear weather all the way to the last Decmber turn and my opponent used it!

although miraculously I managed to win that game - not sure how though

I have to say I think you have this in the bag comfortably if he launches a 43 offensive in Russia - he will run out of PP's if nothing else

Exactly. If he send his troops forward, i will be very happy!

[Crazygunner1]

the Dog fight lvl is a killer, but I have had clear weather all the way to the last Decmber turn and my opponent used it!

although miraculously I managed to win that game - not sure how though

I have to say I think you have this in the bag comfortably if he launches a 43 offensive in Russia - he will run out of PP's if nothing else

Exactly. If he send his troops forward, i will be very happy!

I think he will, to good a chance to not attack.....so my bett he will continue atleast for half the summer, maybe longer.

[massina_nz]

I doesn't have to be the Russian's who take Berlin

The Axis can get caught up in Russia and get sucker punched by the western allies, I think attacking his oil and rail will be beneficial if he continues into Russia.

I am just getting a handle on this game, but I think Plaid would be foolish to attack further into Russia without a good strategic reason

Yes I'm playing game as Axis, and was doing well in Russia (not quite as well as Plaid), but forgot to build sufficient defences in France in the Winter of 42/43. and got hit by the sucker-punch 43 Normandy landings. My East front just had to pull back and got nibbled at by the Russians every turn of the general retreat.

[supermax]

I doesn't have to be the Russian's who take Berlin

The Axis can get caught up in Russia and get sucker punched by the western allies, I think attacking his oil and rail will be beneficial if he continues into Russia.

I am just getting a handle on this game, but I think Plaid would be foolish to attack further into Russia without a good strategic reason

Yes I'm playing game as Axis, and was doing well in Russia (not quite as well as Plaid), but forgot to build sufficient defences in France in the Winter of 42/43. and got hit by the sucker-punch 43 Normandy landings. My East front just had to pull back and got nibbled at by the Russians every turn of the general retreat.

All those discussions make me thinks that i should produce some ground troops rapidly to have a major effect on the Axis for a landing in Northern france. This isnt hard to do, and fast... When the summer offensive starts in Russia, this is when i will make my move.

[massina_nz]

I doesn't have to be the Russian's who take Berlin

The Axis can get caught up in Russia and get sucker punched by the western allies, I think attacking his oil and rail will be beneficial if he continues into Russia.

I am just getting a handle on this game, but I think Plaid would be foolish to attack further into Russia without a good strategic reason

Yes I'm playing game as Axis, and was doing well in Russia (not quite as well as Plaid), but forgot to build sufficient defences in France in the Winter of 42/43. and got hit by the sucker-punch 43 Normandy landings. My East front just had to pull back and got nibbled at by the Russians every turn of the general retreat.

All those discussions make me thinks that i should produce some ground troops rapidly to have a major effect on the Axis for a landing in Northern france. This isnt hard to do, and fast... When the summer offensive starts in Russia, this is when i will make my move.

Just a warning. After THAT game of mine, for all my other subsequent axis games I've ensured I had over 20 INF/MECH units in France and the low countries before the spring of '43. It isn't that hard for the Germans to do (at the expense of manpower) during the 42/43 winter, and it has kept the Aliies out of the West in three other games where I was the Axis. One player invaded Denmark instead in '44, which is pretty easy for the Germans to defend against, and I was never seriously threatened from that quarter.

I suppose as the Allies it's hard to tell how well Western Europe is being fortified given the detrimental effects of winter weather on LOS. So it's a bit of a risk if you attempt a '43 invasion without sufficient air support and then find that the Axis player has planned for that eventuality. However you will be able to tell how well France is garrisoned before Plaids' 43 offensive begins, as FAIR weather will definitely return to Western Europe before the guarranteed 6 turns of SW in Russia ends.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I think the Allies need to bombard the Axis production heavily quite early. It should be possible to keep most of the production the bombers can reach down to red production from 1943. Attacking the synth oil fields is also very important. By doing this you can get the German production down to 115-120 production. That means more than 1 corps unit less per turn. If the Germans decide to defend by using fighters then they have to repair air units as well and it helps keeping the German production low.

The goal is that Allied offensives in the Med and east should be so expensive for the Germans with repairs and reinforcements that they can't build up in France to stop Overlord. If they build up for Overlord then the Axis lines will crack in both Italy and Russia. Knocking Italy out of the war quite early is the key to prevent all coastal hexes in France from being garrisoned.

I think the main focus for Supermax should be to break the deadlock in Italy and capture Taranto or Naples (or a city further north). If the Allies send enough tac bombers and fighters to get air superiority then the Axis units in southern Italy won't stand a chance. It may take awhile to break the line, but constant bombardment and attacks means that these units will have to be repaired each turn, thus draining the Axis economy. There are many coastal hexes in Italy, ideal for shore bombardments each turn. Everything helps in order to drain the Axis economy. Sending a few strategic bombers to the area is good because Rome, Milan and other important cities can be bombarded. Italy's production can be so crippled so they can't afford to repair their losses and then the defense line will fall shortly.

Once Italy is out of the war it will be much harder for Plaid to defend his rear areas from partisans and hold the Allies at bay in Italy, Greece and France. Overload the German production capacity and you won't meet a Atlantic wall of Axis units in 1944 in France.

[supermax]

[Crazygunner1]

How much is an oilfield worth? If i capture an oilfield that says 2 production, how much does it yeld?

[rkr1958]

How much is an oilfield worth? If i capture an oilfield that says 2 production, how much does it yeld?

It yields half of the oil per turn. So, for full production the amount of oil per turn = 2 production x 4 oil points / production point = 8 oil points. So, you'd get 4 oil points per turn.

[Crazygunner1]

How much is an oilfield worth? If i capture an oilfield that says 2 production, how much does it yeld?

It yields half of the oil per turn. So, for full production the amount of oil per turn = 2 production x 4 oil points / production point = 8 oil points. So, you'd get 4 oil points per turn.

I see....so you get half, same as occupied PPs

Thanks

[Peter Stauffenberg]

The actual oil production is a bit more complicated than that.

This is the formula: oil value of hex (divided by 2 if occupied) * 4 * war effort in percent / 100. Fractions are kept.

Let's say Germany has occupied an oilfield which produces 3 oil. The current German war effort is 120.

The the production each turn from the hex is: 3 / 2 * 4 * 120 / 100 = 7.2

To make the formula even more complicated you also have to take into consideration bombardment of the oilfield. Let's say Germany controls the Romanian Ploesti oilfield which has sustained 3 hits out of the maximum 10 hits. The German war effort is now 130. Ploesti's oilfield has a value of 4 if not bombarded.

The formula will then be: (10-3)/10 * 4 * 4 * 130 / 100 = 14.56 oil added to the German oil reserve

if no further bombardment the Ploesti oilfield will the following turn produce: 16.64 oil

So you see that each hit on the Ploesti oilfield will reduce the actual German oil reserve by about 2 oil per turn until the damage is repaired. That is quite a bit and a very good reason for the Allies and Russians to bombard all the German controlled oilfields.

[rkr1958]

The actual oil production is a bit more complicated than that.

This is the formula: oil value of hex (divided by 2 if occupied) * 4 * war effort in percent / 100. Fractions are kept.

ARG ... I left out war effort. Thanks for keeping me straight.

[supermax]

The actual oil production is a bit more complicated than that.

This is the formula: oil value of hex (divided by 2 if occupied) * 4 * war effort in percent / 100. Fractions are kept.

Let's say Germany has occupied an oilfield which produces 3 oil. The current German war effort is 120.

The the production each turn from the hex is: 3 / 2 * 4 * 120 / 100 = 7.2

To make the formula even more complicated you also have to take into consideration bombardment of the oilfield. Let's say Germany controls the Romanian Ploesti oilfield which has sustained 3 hits out of the maximum 10 hits. The German war effort is now 130. Ploesti's oilfield has a value of 4 if not bombarded.

The formula will then be: (10-3)/10 * 4 * 4 * 130 / 100 = 14.56 oil added to the German oil reserve

if no further bombardment the Ploesti oilfield will the following turn produce: 16.64 oil

So you see that each hit on the Ploesti oilfield will reduce the actual German oil reserve by about 2 oil per turn until the damage is repaired. That is quite a bit and a very good reason for the Allies and Russians to bombard all the German controlled oilfields.

If i can smoehow combine my renewed air attack in Greee with a potential german offensive, i think i can get him to run outt of oil fast, especially since i now can destroy the western oilfields as well.


As for Italy, Greece, and other options i am stiil in a quandary. I think i should press the attack there, but i am thinking of a way to move those bombers and tacs fast... I am thinking of attacking the Vichy French and the same turn rebase a bunch of air units to the partisans-controlled hexes in france. In 2 turns i could transfer a lot of air units and thus take a fast run to having a winning air war in Italy. What do you think of that Borger? I am also thinking about the downside of it, i would release 2 more naval units in the MEd which i cannot really destroy rapidly,except if i transfert enough air units to the area.

I currently have 3 english fighters in the med + 1 american one. Also have a TAc and 2 STRAT. All of those are for the Greece operation, but i am thinking of sending 2 FTR to Italy, with 2 TACs from England and say 2-3 STRAT from England as well.. Also, i currently have 6 russian FTR on the map and 2 more in production, brining the total to 8 and they are finally DOg fight LVL 3. So i would have 4 very potent angle of attack in the air, with England, Italy, Greece and Russia... With this, i would have Plaid use all his air units every turn, thus rendering his oil situation desperate if he choose to launch an offensive in Russia. If he does so, only 2-3 turns of keeping it up will get him into big trouble and after that most planes will be grounded for the most part of 1944... Added to taking down the german synth oil facilities and maybee damading Ploesti a little bit as well with my 2 bombers that i will send soon, Plaid shall find himself into big trouble, probably even strop his potential offensive...

But will he go forward? I certainly hop so. I need to put the INf in Moscow as a sacrifice for the nation since to destroy them he will use his airforce to its full extent...

[trulster]

I think attacking Vichy at this point of the game is a gift to the Axis (another Greece!). Surely invading France must be better, depending on Axis defences and it will cause mroe oil drain. To force a decision in Italy you need more air as you mention. Combined with shore bombardment taking the 3rd city is quite doable.

[Crazygunner1]

Just a heads up!!!

On the russian front, if he launches an offensive, be carefull in he doesn´t do it between Tambov and Penza, there is good terrain there for Mechs and Tanks so they will easily come up to Corki and Varoslav to encirlce your entire northern army. Asuming that he captures Moscow, witch it looks like he will.

Ofcoruse he will loose a lot of oil on it and be stuck, but you won´t be going anywhere either without a norhtern army.

Also i have to agree with trulster on this one, put up the pressure in France and on the 2 other fronts at the same time. Don´t open another front like Greece, it will only result in Plaid moving some troops there and make it a stalemate.
Continue bombing Ploesti and maybe the oil in Russia also....that would really hurt him....

Thanks for info on oil...very helpful