Cavalry charges

mceochaidh · Post by **mceochaidh** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:35 pm

My recollection of John Keegan's remarks on cavalry charges against foot would dictate an evaluation of the mechanisn currently used. I think the sequence would be as follows:

1) formed cavalry initiates the charge (impact combat). I think this should be from at least two hexes in a straight line.
2) The infantry either remains steady or flinches.
3) The cavalry strikes as formed, non-disordered
4) If infantry remains steady and is armed with pikes, long spear or polearms, the cavalry has a low probability to penetrate infantry line. They would then mill around for a very short time and retire disordered.
5) If infantry waivers, cavalry would break into infantry and have a high probability of immediately routing the infantry and at the very least disorder them. Cavalry breaking in would become disordered as well. If both disordered, they fight on next turn. Disordered cavalry should be superior to disordered infantry, numbers being equal.

It seems to me that a cavalry versus foot combat presently can go on for a few turns and seems more like foot versus foot than what I described above, as for example both BGs can stay formed during these turns.

Any comments?

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:14 pm

If the infantry are still formed after impact and melee, the cavalry break off.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:47 pm

Thats what I was going to say.... figures the rules writer would beat us to it.

76mm · Post by **76mm** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:14 am

rbodleyscott wrote:If the infantry are still formed after impact and melee, the cavalry break off.

Is this how it is supposed to work? It sure seems like cavalry very often stays engaged whatever state the infantry is in (even if a break off path is open).

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:23 am

76mm wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:If the infantry are still formed after impact and melee, the cavalry break off.
Is this how it is supposed to work? It sure seems like cavalry very often stays engaged whatever state the infantry is in (even if a break off path is open).

I have never seen that happen. Bear in mind that they have to fight 2 rounds of combat before they break off.

76mm · Post by **76mm** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:39 am

rbodleyscott wrote:Bear in mind that they have to fight 2 rounds of combat before they break off.

What does this mean exactly--two of my turns of melee, or my turn and the opponent's turn of melee, or my impact and then melee?

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:54 am

76mm wrote:
rbodleyscott wrote:Bear in mind that they have to fight 2 rounds of combat before they break off.
What does this mean exactly--two of my turns of melee, or my turn and the opponent's turn of melee, or my impact and then melee?

It means 2 combats total, whoever initiated contact. Impact + melee.

More accuarately (I think), it means after they have fought 1 round of melee combat. (I am not positive that the initial combat is absolutely always an impact combat, but it normally should be).

Xiggy · Post by **Xiggy** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:13 pm

It is interesting that u can charge through lights, but not break off through lights. Is that deliberate.

grumblefish · Post by **grumblefish** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:53 pm

Just so I understand, why can't my hoplites charge cavalry effectively? Does the rule punish me if I initiate the combat, but benefit me if I am receiving the charge? Because sometimes my opponents park their elite persian cavalry ladies right infront of my line, and I can't resist the urge to click on them.

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:07 pm

Foot are only penalized when charging shock mounted (except defensive spears which are penalized if charging anything except defensive spears). Shock mounted are non LH mounted with lance and heavy and scythe chariots.

So charge the Persians all you want

.

Chris

mceochaidh · Post by **mceochaidh** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:30 pm

I just played a game in which Persian Cav was in mele contact with a Macedonian Pike BG and a Macedonian Companion Cavalry BG. The Persian cav became disrupted and then broke off. It would seem to me that the Persians should not break off with the Companions still in contact, or the Companions should follow. Can cavalry break off from other cavalry? Does not seem right.

Also, in another fight, Persian cavalry decided to break off and instead of retiring in the direction of their line, away from the combat, they moved laterally and then towards the Macedonian line. Seems odd.

I did notice that cavalry charging foot and then becoming disrupted in the ensuing mele would break off.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:29 pm

Breaking off all depends on the state of the cavalry's opponent. If cav is fighting foot that is steady, not disrupted or fragged they will break off. If the majority of their targets are steady they will break off. So if you have cav fighting mounted and foot if the foot is steady the cav will break off ignoring the enemy mounted. IF you have more than a single foot unit and one of them is not steady but the other is, enemy mounted will break off.

You can also force a break off by having your mounted fight enemy mounted in melee not impact, then charge in with foot who remain steady and so at the end of the turn the enemy mounted will break off on you, since you they now face steady foot.

I believe it takes two turns of combat before a mounted unit will break off, first turn they charge in, second turn is melee then they have the ability to break off.

Break off paths need to be looked at as they don't always follow a logical path but often end up behind enemy facing the rear of multiple enemy. There are posts regarding stupid break offs in the tech section at present so hopefully the devs will be aware of the problem.

Cavalry charges

Cavalry charges

Cavalry breaking off