Yuan Chinese

[gelin]

Hello all,

I am consider fielding a Yuan Chinese with an eye to open competitions.
Here is the list a have got into so far:

4 TC
Guard Cavalry 3*4 Cv/S/Dr/Arm/Bw-Swd
Mongol Cavalry 1*4 LH/S/Dr/UnPr/Bw-Swd
Mongol Cavalry 2*4 LH/A/Dr/UnPr/Bw-Swd
Chinese Guards 1*4 HF/S/Dr/Arm/Heavy Wp
Anti cavalry squads 2*4 HF/A/Dr/Pr/Heavy Wp
Spear and Doo 1*6 MF/A/Dr/Pr/Heavy Wp
Mixed formations 1*6 MF/A/Dr/Pr/LSp-Bw
Mixed formations 1*6 MF/A/Dr/Pr/LSp-CBw
Skirmishing archers 1*8 LF/A/Dr/UnPr/Bw
Firearms 1*4 LF/A/Dr/UnPr/Fm

There is a solid HF line. All BGs are Drilled so there is a lot of manouverability to cope with situations. The small initiative(1) means that i will tend not to choose terain but play the first move. I prefer that since the army should be able to deal with terain

My concern are the 4 base average HF as with two unlucky death rolls can be lost. On the other hand in 4s they give great flexibility. Ideas?
Also the LF archers can be in 6s so i can upgrade an average LH BG to Superior Mongol LH. Should i drop the 2 bases of LF archers to get the Superior LH or keep them in 8?

[hazelbark]

The Chinese armies generally you have to decide are they primarily mounted or foot.

If mounted, the HF slows your manuverablity.

Personally I think the lt spear bow MF is pretty nice versus lots of enemy mounted.

I tend to not favor the HF anti-cav except for bulking.

[gelin]

The Chinese armies generally you have to decide are they primarily mounted or foot.

If mounted, the HF slows your manuverablity.

Personally I think the lt spear bow MF is pretty nice versus lots of enemy mounted.

I tend to not favor the HF anti-cav except for bulking.

Actually i would like to see them as a combined arms. This army especially is not a traditional steppe army, since it can field Mongol Cv (either heavy or light) and good Chinese infantry...

[hazelbark]

I use them as combined arms too. But there is still one arm that is decisive and the other combines.

My Xi Xia I use the lancers as the force of decision. The foot supports. Its not quite storng enough on its own. It can push LH and with luck match a singl BG of CV. But the foot interacts with the mounted. The mounted have to win however.

So with your list, I fear that CV manuver aggressively and the HF can't keep up. That's why I favor the MF is is more likely to keep up.

The other thing I like about the supporting MF, is it can hold the edge of terrain giving your mounted an edge and increased firepower vs enemy mounted.

I reverse this for say the Warring States, where I think the foot have to be the arm of decision and the mounted support.

[gelin]

I use them as combined arms too. But there is still one arm that is decisive and the other combines.

My Xi Xia I use the lancers as the force of decision. The foot supports. Its not quite storng enough on its own. It can push LH and with luck match a singl BG of CV. But the foot interacts with the mounted. The mounted have to win however.

So with your list, I fear that CV manuver aggressively and the HF can't keep up. That's why I favor the MF is is more likely to keep up.

The other thing I like about the supporting MF, is it can hold the edge of terrain giving your mounted an edge and increased firepower vs enemy mounted.

I reverse this for say the Warring States, where I think the foot have to be the arm of decision and the mounted support.

The Xi Xia is another type of army, predominately lancer cavalry. Also i don' think that their infanty is resilient enough, at least not as the Yuan.

Of course the MF keep up the pace with the cavalry BUT it depends on how fast you commit the cavalry. IMO the Mongol cavalry should be patient to find an opportunity and exploit it, they are not lancers that can charge in and hope for a quick break. Hence a sensible way is to wait for the infantry to come or at least be close enough.

I would prefer the Northern Dynasties than Xi Xia, since they have a combination of Lance cavalry and Bow-Sword cavalry, plus some Cataphracts and MF armoured Heavy weapon

[hazelbark]

I would prefer the Northern Dynasties than Xi Xia, since they have a combination of Lance cavalry and Bow-Sword cavalry, plus some Cataphracts and MF armoured Heavy weapon

That takes a lot of combination to put together. I think how to manage the levy spearmen are an issue in that list. But they are large enough to hold one flank against a light attack.

I think the MF is more resilient when carefully applied that people realized, but it can shatter. It is not a head on force but helps on the sides of where the lines meet.

[gelin]

I would prefer the Northern Dynasties than Xi Xia, since they have a combination of Lance cavalry and Bow-Sword cavalry, plus some Cataphracts and MF armoured Heavy weapon

That takes a lot of combination to put together. I think how to manage the levy spearmen are an issue in that list. But they are large enough to hold one flank against a light attack.

I think the MF is more resilient when carefully applied that people realized, but it can shatter. It is not a head on force but helps on the sides of where the lines meet.

Actually i found them to be working very nicely. I could mass the Lance cavalry on one flank, while still have quality cavalry not only to deny but contest the other (should the opponent think that he has the upper hand).

The Armoured MF served many purposes depending on terrain and plan, while the Poor Def Sp proved extremely ressilient and value for money.