Dark Age Europe?

daveallen · Post by **daveallen** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:28 am

In the back of Wolves from the Sea the themed tournament section says a Dark Age Europe 496-1040 theme can include armies from Legions Triumphant and Decline and Fall, but it does not include the first few armies from Oath of Fealty.

Is this an error or was Spain not part of Europe in the eleventh century?

Any chance of an errata?

Regards,

Dave

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:39 am

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:01 am

There is nothing stopping a tournament organiser allowing other armies in themes. I doubt that there will be any errata to this section though.

daveallen · Post by **daveallen** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:01 pm

That's a pity. Although the general problem is what is permitted in competitions - such as Roman Thracians in an Immortal Fire comp.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:38 pm

I think the "book" themes are pretty weak for a number of reasons.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:09 pm

daveallen wrote:That's a pity. Although the general problem is what is permitted in competitions - such as Roman Thracians in an Immortal Fire comp.

Again, there is nothing stopping a tournament orgnaniser specifying a theme and then putting a date range on as well.

Basing themes on the books is a nice easy way to go but it is far from the only way.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:25 pm

ethan wrote:I think the "book" themes are pretty weak for a number of reasons.

chiefly not thought through.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:48 pm

hazelbark wrote:
ethan wrote:I think the "book" themes are pretty weak for a number of reasons.
chiefly not thought through.

Basing a themed comp on a FoG book and the extra lists is a lot better than for example a DBM book 2 comp. It is not perfect but definitely better.

Perhaps where people run themed tournaments with themes that work well they should post the details of the theme here.

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:55 pm

hammy wrote: Basing a themed comp on a FoG book and the extra lists is a lot better than for example a DBM book 2 comp.

For some of the themes possibly, for others (EoD) not so much IMO.

One problem I see is that I don't recall (m)any tournaments that said "any DBM Bk 2 army" rather people worked out themes. The temptation in FoG is to use the "book themes" which aren't much if any better than that IMO, instead of working out a theme...

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:51 pm

ethan wrote: One problem I see is that I don't recall (m)any tournaments that said "any DBM Bk 2 army" rather people worked out themes.

Pretty common on the continent I believe, and you see that continued these days in the Italian DBMM scene where they rotate between the books. Of course people quite often used the dates of the DBM books as the "theme", which is no better in reality than saying book X.

To be honest the only comps I've ever played in which have what I would consider a "proper" theme are Campaign and John Graham-Leigh's invitational DBM competition - everything else is really just a pool of armies cobbled together around a broad concept, be it dates, a region or other, as defined by someone's subjective preferences. All flawed to a greater or, less commonly, lesser degree.

As for the FoG book "themes", they are really only there as an aide to the less experienced to give them an idea of what can be done. In reality we only use them as they are conveniently printed and save work 'cos ultimately we tend to be lazy.

david53 · Post by **david53** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:00 pm

ethan wrote: One problem I see is that I don't recall (m)any tournaments that said "any DBM Bk 2 army" rather people worked out themes.

MM do it by book playing one this weekend in Stoke Book 4

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:10 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:
As for the FoG book "themes", they are really only there as an aide to the less experienced to give them an idea of what can be done. In reality we only use them as they are conveniently printed and save work 'cos ultimately we tend to be lazy.

yep

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:16 pm

nikgaukroger wrote:To be honest the only comps I've ever played in which have what I would consider a "proper" theme are Campaign and John Graham-Leigh's invitational DBM competition - everything else is really just a pool of armies cobbled together around a broad concept, be it dates, a region or other, as defined by someone's subjective preferences. All flawed to a greater or, less commonly, lesser degree.

Warfare has some decent themes. A bit looser than Campaign and the invitational but still much better than book 2 or 494AD to 1050 AD

I agree that the EotD 'theme' in FoG is a pretty rubbish one but in some ways it needs to be a wide one to get enough players with armies to play.

azrael86 · Post by **azrael86** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:51 pm

hammy wrote: Basing a themed comp on a FoG book and the extra lists is a lot better than for example a DBM book 2 comp. It is not perfect but definitely better.

I would suggest that it isn't. The sheer number of books is an issue. The mismash of overlaps between several books of armies and allies (what comes to mind is S&S/D&F/EE) has created something far harder to delineate correctly: dates are all over the place, and that's before we get to Lost scrolls!

Rollcall has had working themes for years, way back to Dunstable!

robertthebruce · Post by **robertthebruce** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:05 pm

daveallen wrote:In the back of Wolves from the Sea the themed tournament section says a Dark Age Europe 496-1040 theme can include armies from Legions Triumphant and Decline and Fall, but it does not include the first few armies from Oath of Fealty.

Is this an error or was Spain not part of Europe in the eleventh century?

Any chance of an errata?

Regards,

Dave

If you're asking for a country called Spain in 11th century, the answer is no.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:08 pm

azrael86 wrote:Rollcall has had working themes for years, way back to Dunstable!

That may have been the case in Dunstable but when I played at my first Roll Call the themes were DBM book 1, DBM book 2, etc. You could have Samurai fighting Normans as a 'themed' game.

Warfare has for most of the time I remember provided a list of armies and a date range which is a much better form of theme.

grahambriggs · Post by **grahambriggs** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:37 am

The Dunstable Roll Call "hairy" theme in WRG 6th edition was always a good excuse to get the Viking wedges on the table!

On the other hand I'm looking forward to the Exotics theme at Britcon; Empires of the Dragon and Blood and Gold. should be a hoot!

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:34 am

hammy wrote:Warfare has for most of the time I remember provided a list of armies and a date range which is a much better form of theme.

Always one of the nice things about Warfare.

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:40 am

ethan wrote:
hammy wrote:Warfare has for most of the time I remember provided a list of armies and a date range which is a much better form of theme.
Always one of the nice things about Warfare.

Warfare was one of the better examples - alas in the last few years their choices have, IMO, been less good in general

Not terrible though.

bahdahbum · Post by **bahdahbum** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:39 pm

In france there was an "elephant" tournament where you had to have at least one BG of elephant and that was the only requirement . In november , we will have in Belgium, the "First Knight" tournament where the requirements are simple : minimum 8 bases of KN, maximum 8 bases LB and NO elephant .( more info this week-end)

So, theme are pretty easy to find.

Regards

Jacques

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