So who turns here? and then who fights?

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:18 pm

Had this come up at Historicon, but weren't 100% on what happens. The chariot battlegroup gets charged from three directions.

The ruling was that in impact it had to turn on chariot to face the rear and the the Knight/LH player got to decide what the chariots would fight. Naturally he chose that the knights would just fight the Knights at impact (which weren't disrupted or down a base at the time...).

In melee the ruling was that the chariots had to send two dice at each BG, two to the rear LH, two to the flank LH and two versus the Knights.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:04 pm

I would think one of the contacted chariots would turn to face its rear, the other stays facing front. You have to allocated dice against all contacted BG's and since you get 6, 2 for the overlap and 4 from direct base contact you would split them evenly 2 dice versus each enemy. In melee you get a - POA for fighting in 2 directions so you would end up with 0 POA's.

Key thing here is the LH on your flank, on page 86 you will see a similar situation where the overlapping LH do not get to fight since the corner is blocked by the rear LH unit, so they get 1 die. The rear LH get 2 dice the knights get 4 dice the rear rank gets none but assuming it was the knitghts turn the player should have expanded out the rear onto your overlapping chariot.

So summing up the combat looks like your 2 dice to 4 vs the knights. 2 dice vs 2 dice vs rear LH and 2 dice vs 1 die for the flank LH. I would guess your even with the LH since I doubt they get a POA, Knights I would guess fight at a + for better armour.

You both could have picked up extra dice versus the knights if they would have expanded so maybe good or bad for you depends how the dice rolled. Got your self into a sticky mess with that one. Hope that helped and better luck next time, just be glad those were lights on your flanks and you did not lose cohesion on the rear charge

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:12 pm

That looks like it should be no dice against the flank LH since no one is facing them. So 4 against the knights for one chariot in frontal contact and for the overlapper. Two against the rear LH since one chariot would be facing them. All will have the -POA for fighting in two directions.

Chris

david53 · Post by **david53** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:46 pm

batesmotel wrote:That looks like it should be no dice against the flank LH since no one is facing them. So 4 against the knights for one chariot in frontal contact and for the overlapper. Two against the rear LH since one chariot would be facing them. All will have the -POA for fighting in two directions.

Chris

Could have swore you had to turn at least one to face an enemy ie one to the flank

ethan · Post by **ethan** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:33 pm

batesmotel wrote:That looks like it should be no dice against the flank LH since no one is facing them. So 4 against the knights for one chariot in frontal contact and for the overlapper. Two against the rear LH since one chariot would be facing them. All will have the -POA for fighting in two directions.

Chris

This is the situation at the initial impact, so we haven't actually turned anyone yet. Certainly at least one base has to turn, but the question is how many and who do they fight?

berthier · Post by **berthier** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:27 am

The phasing player determines the order in which the charges are resolved so it would seem to follow that he would determine the order in which the BGs charged the chariots. If knights goes first then the flank charging LH, the chariots would turn one base to face the LH on the flank and as only those two bases are in contact wouldn't that mean that no one turns to face the LH in the rear and no dice are thrown against the rear charging LH.

Either way one of the chariot bases has to turn and face one of the LH units and as it is in combat, that should mean one base of knights on one base of chariots and one base of chariots on one file of LH. Don't have the book in front of me so I can't give you a page number or reference s I could be way off.

Christopher Anders

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:01 am

Page 91 seems to set out how to resolve your dilemma in impact. right hand column top of the page. Says turn any bases required to turn to face a flank or rear charge and proceed as follows:........ This includes bases contacted on their flank or rear which were unable to turn because they are already engaged to their front.
So yes I guess it depends on who charges first as to which way the chariot will have to turn. Moving players choice so I guess the LH charges will decide how the chariot turns.

Further down same page it says if both side have an equal number of bases eligible to fight, all of them fight. ..... IF the number of eligible bases is unequal both sides fight with the lower number of bases. The side with the higher number of bases chooses which of his bases will not fight. His choice must leave every eligible enemy base paired off against one of his.

So for impact looks like you get 2 dice for the knights and 1 die for the LH. One of the LH units does not get to fight in impact since its 3 enemy to 2 chariots. I think the reference to dishing out combat dice among all engaged enemies only applies to melee. So its ++ for the chargers, -- for the chariots. I almost think your opponent would have been better staying with a head on charge and go for dice with the knights and next turn bring in the lights, or held back a LH for a turn to get one more ++/-- impact on you on their next turn.

In my originial post I thought we were talking melee not charges

berthier · Post by **berthier** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:53 am

I think the Chariots are only down 1 POA to the knights in impact. The ++ only applies to the LH for charging the flank or rear.

In melee,

Armour does not apply vs chariots so the Knights get a + for sword.

Assuming these are heavy chariots, they get a + vs the knights and are down a - for fighting enemy in two or more directions.

LH get a + if armed with swords, otherwise they get no POA.

So chariots fight a - vs the knights (or -- if they are light chariots) and either -- vs the LH (or - if the LH are not sword armed).

rogerg · Post by **rogerg** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:47 am

The rules state that if all the charge contacted bases are in contact to their front one only is turned. As charges are made consecutively, each time a new charge is made, the target will turn bases if hit from flank or rear. There is nothing to stop the same base turning a second time if it gets hit a second time.

If the three charges have just happened this phase, the picture represents an impossible situation because the bases would turn as each charge makes contact.

To get the answer to the question we need to know what order the charges were made in.

deadtorius · Post by **deadtorius** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:34 am

Well depending on who charges the flank or rear first the chariot turns and is now facing enemy to its front so guess it won't turn again. The LH would still only get 1 attack at ++ since its 3BG's vs 2BG's so one of them might have been better off waiting till later or charge the rear with LH then the flank with LH, both chariots turn? Then the knights hit last and force a cohesion loss and get 2 dice for rear charge to boot. If the order of charge would force a facing change that is the nastiest scenario I can think of. Then whoever fights its ++/-- all the way around.