Unusual overlap/restricted area situation

[ottomanmjm]

The following situation occurred in a game the other day. L1-L4 is a 4 base Light foot unit facing down. X1-X4 is a 4 base Cavalry unit facing down. Y1-Y4 is a 4 base cavalry unit facing up. Units L and X belong to player A and unit Y belongs to player B. Units X and Y are in combat and neither can conform due to other units on either side (not shown in the diagram).

Code: Select all

  
    L1L1L2L2
    L3L3L4L4  X1X1X2X2
              X3X3X4X4
           Y1Y1Y2Y2
           Y3Y3Y4Y4

In player A's turn he wants to move unit L into on overlap position, but as units X and Y are not lined up this would require unit L moving into front edge contact with unit Y, to get an edge to edge and corner to corner contact with unit X. Is this permissible?

If so, in player B's turn would unit Y conform by moving to the left, assuming there was space to conform, so that one base was lined up with unit L (as this would be the shortest move)?

If unit L did not move into overlap is it considered to be in the restricted area of unit Y? It is directly in front of part of unit Y and there seems to be no mention in the rules about a restricted area being blocked by a unit being in combat.

Regards
Martin

[deadtorius]

you can't move into overlap as there are enemy units currently overlapping so the only way to engage them in melee is to charge the enemy who are not directly involved in a melee. Being lights you can't charge them.

Oddly it does appear that overlapping units would exert a restricted area so the lights would be limited to normal restricted area move restrictions. Does seem odd but perhaps that was a way of forcing players to charge in to reinforce against an engaged enemy instead of a free lets move on their flank and flank charge them next turn cheese move.

[ottomanmjm]

you can't move into overlap as there are enemy units currently overlapping so the only way to engage them in melee is to charge the enemy who are not directly involved in a melee. Being lights you can't charge them.

Perhaps my diagram was not too clear. Both front rank bases of unit Y were engaged with both front rank bases of unit X, with about 10mm of the right hand side of the left hand element of unit Y actually in contact with unit X. There are no other units in contact or overlap with either unit X or unit Y.

[hammy]

Threre is nothing in the FoG rules to say that troops ever lose their restricted area. Nothing obstructs restricted areas either.

Even a routing BG has a restricted area and I can remember one instance where one of my BGs was so restricted to my cost

[petedalby]

Units X and Y are in combat and neither can conform due to other units on either side

Please clarify?

See page 71 - could those BGs on either side be shifted sideways to enable the conform to take place?

[deadtorius]

you can shove non-fighting units aside when conforming so most likely they should have been able to conform, in which case the LI could have moved into an overlap position in their movement phase. Being lights they will only get to add 1 die to the melee but in some cases every extra die might help.

[Cerberias]

you can shove non-fighting units aside when conforming so most likely they should have been able to conform, in which case the LI could have moved into an overlap position in their movement phase. Being lights they will only get to add 1 die to the melee but in some cases every extra die might help.

The situation we had was such that unit X could not push unit L out of the way to conform because unit L would have had to push another friendly unit off the table. Unit X could not conform the other way as there were units in combat. Similarly unit Y was restricted from conforming due to friends in contact and friends extending to the table edge. I did not show these units as I wanted top keep the diagram simple.

So the question remains can unit L move into side edge to side edge contact with unit X and provide an overlap even though part of its front edge is in conctact with the front edge of unit Y? Remembering that the base of Y contacted by unit L is in combat with unit X.

[philqw78]

L is pinned, so must stay in front. X and Y are fighting as if conformed but arent, so IMO if L moved forwards into frontal contact L would fight as if in an overlap. L would Conform to a proper overlap position in its next movement phase.

[gozerius]

I agree with Phil.

[philqw78]

I agree with Phil.

Are you feeling OK?

[gozerius]

I agree with Phil.

Are you feeling OK?

You're right. I better take my temperature and then lay down a bit.

[ottomanmjm]

L is pinned, so must stay in front. X and Y are fighting as if conformed but arent, so IMO if L moved forwards into frontal contact L would fight as if in an overlap. L would Conform to a proper overlap position in its next movement phase.

Thanks, thats what we thought. The only confusing thing was that in unit Y's turn the shortest conform move would seem to be a short move to the left so that one base would be in frontal contact with unit L. We decided that althiugh unit Y was in frontal contact with both L and X it was actually fighting X so had to conform to X.

[gozerius]

L is pinned, so must stay in front. X and Y are fighting as if conformed but arent, so IMO if L moved forwards into frontal contact L would fight as if in an overlap. L would Conform to a proper overlap position in its next movement phase.

Thanks, thats what we thought. The only confusing thing was that in unit Y's turn the shortest conform move would seem to be a short move to the left so that one base would be in frontal contact with unit L. We decided that althiugh unit Y was in frontal contact with both L and X it was actually fighting X so had to conform to X.

Oh! In that case L cannot claim to be moving into an overlap position. It only works if the unconformed bases would conform in such a way that the bases would end up in full front edge contact with their opposites. In your situation L would be counted as in front edge contact with the enemy and that is not an option for LF.

(See what a little rest can do, Phil?)

[philqw78]

See what a little rest can do, Phil?)

You are obviously fully refreshed

[domblas]

Threre is nothing in the FoG rules to say that troops ever lose their restricted area. Nothing obstructs restricted areas either.

Even a routing BG has a restricted area and I can remember one instance where one of my BGs was so restricted to my cost

hi foggers,
do you mean that restricted area can also extend through ennemy bases? Like for exemple if a BG fights a BG of HF in two ranks (3cm deep) the RA still takes effect on 2 cm behind the ennemy bases?

[philqw78]

do you mean that restricted area can also extend through ennemy bases? Like for exemple if a BG fights a BG of HF in two ranks (3cm deep) the RA still takes effect on 2 cm behind the ennemy bases?

Yes