Points for camps

[MesaDon]

Are points for camps rounded up or down? In a recent 500 point DAG game (1.2. I took the camp and was awarded four points. I expected five since I assumed my oppornent would of used very close to his 500 points. Are the point totals rounded down to the nearest 100 before the ten percent is taken (400 - 499 is four points and five points does not begin until 500). If that is the case it would be an advantage, slight but victories are often won by that slight advantage, not to use all the points but to stay at least one point away from using all the points you could. I would think that it should round up after the halfway point (351 - 450 would be 4 points and 451 - 550 would be 5 points etc.)

[TheGrayMouser]

Hmm I thought it was 10% of the armies break points , not ap's

[deeter]

GM is correct.

Deeter

[MesaDon]

Thanks then that explains it. Have to review that game and see what there is to see.

Checked the game and the break points were 47 so what I said about rounding still exists. Is it four points for anything under 49 break points? (40 - 49). Think it should round up for example at 46 for 5 points.

[deeter]

That would make sense, but don't count on it. It's taken since beta to get this change in.

Deeter

[Scutarii]

I expect this new points for camp could be optional because if now the hunt for camp breaks the esence of the battles add more points to it... i see playing tourneys with the "no take enemy camp" rule because not all armies can do this, only barbarian or cavalry/LF armies can do it roman or hellenistic armies for example cant do it because they are based on quality and are the less movile armies.

[Morbio]

I'm not an expert on history, but I believe that some battles used attacks, or the threat of attack, on camps to influence the strategies of opposition.

I don't think that this should be an optional feature and where one side lacks mobility then they usually make it up in someother way.

The choice that faces us as gamers is the same that faced the commanders in history. How much of a force to leave behind to defend the camp?

[Scutarii]

The problem is the concept of camp in FoG, is like a single unit that can "routed" forever in a single attack but cant defend or made enemy attackers break the attack, and we talk about roman camps and their job as fortress or better not. For me give more points for lose your camp is killing the movile battles, for example me with a macedonian 40 points army if i can lose more than 2 points if i lose the camp i dont move, i camp and wait enemy but he can do the same... then game is a draw because nobody want expose the camp. I dont like the inclusion of camps in the game (as optional yes) and increase their value... if at least they works as supply centers for your skirmishers...

I like FoG but if camps increase their point value i think that with some armies defensive is the only option against other armies, you can lose a battle not by a good tactical option only taking enemy camp because he try to fight... i win a battle by a single point after taking enemy camp in a suicide attack and i think that i dont win because was better, only because can take enemy camp.

EDIT: the problem is that a single LF unit can take a camp and after do this can return to fight when in the period (even after napoleonic period) loote enemy camp need a great number of troops and usually they leave the battle even they were killed in enemy camp because lose the military performance and become a mob not soldiers, if take a camp only give to attacker bonus and he dont have a chance to lose....

[Xiggy]

It takes multiple turns usually to take a camp. So it isn't that easy. Also, some lists require a 16 point armed camp. (not sure which list) at least now the points are or will be well spent.

I will adjust my tactics accordingly.

[TheGrayMouser]

It takes multiple turns usually to take a camp. So it isn't that easy. Also, some lists require a 16 point armed camp. (not sure which list) at least now the points are or will be well spent.

I will adjust my tactics accordingly.

I am sure all the Roman lists are forced to have the fortified camp, a few others as well

I agree , now those "wasted" ap's will be usefull

[MesaDon]

Having played a number of games with double moves only once have I benn able to get to the camp and I normally try. Most of the time the point increase wouldn't be more then two or three extra in the DAG games I've played but if someone field an army of skimishers well it could go over seven points even in a 500 point game a little penalty for al those low point units. I like the rule change adds some extra strategy for both sides.

[deeter]

I always go for the enemy camp and usually do my best to defend mine, even though the two points aren't worth it. It's sort of a role playing thing. Most players I've seen could care less, so this will make a nice change, I think. And yes, those 60 BG shooty armies will be hard pressed to keep their 6 point camp, and even that's not much of a penalty for choosing that style of play.

Deeter

[Scutarii]

Well, with 500 points and a macedonian army i only can do one thing at the same time VS a barbarian army (even vs a long roman army) or i defend my camp or i try to defeat enemy, if you fail breaking enemy army your camp is dead and if you defend your camp enemy can avoid attack, isnt the first game where i finally attack to prevent a draw because i dont play to see static armies (one time i break enemy´s center but lose my camp by a LF unit and finally i lose the game when historically break enemy´s center is the half of a battle and take enemy camp dont necessary is decisive even take enemy´s camp is an advantage for you because units search the boty and leave the battle and more units can do the same because money is money hehehe).

Take a camp is to easy in the game, to... casual because with a single LF unit you can take enemy camp even a roman camp (only army that are forced to have 16 points camp) when in real life we talk about 1.000 or more soldiers taking it and often leaven the battle (you know booty aaaaarrrr hehehe) not only who lose the camp lose points, attacker lose the soldiers to but in the game after lote the camp they can return to the battle and seriously you can defend your camp all the time with LF units near??? not all armies can purchase poor LF units or MF mobs to do this job (and dont talk about the extra rout points to your army with this poor units, why give same number of points a poor unit than an average unit??? same for rout this units of course).

For me the game is for defeat enemy army not take his camp i think that is a good add do camps optional and can remove then from list if you dont want play with them.