1.2.8

[deeter]

I just charged a horse archer with some light jav cav. The archer evaded facing to the rear and my LH cuaght him in the rear during the pursuit. Great stuff! How soon is this patch going to be released?

Deeter

[Morbio]

[TheGrayMouser]

Some intriguing changes coming about, methinks I like em!

[deeter]

So far, I like everything I've seen. It's really going to change the game in many ways, such as punishing all skirmisher armies.

Deeter

[Blathergut]

They were far too powerful before when they could move and turn back and shoot and such. It helped when they couldn't move quite so freely. Hopefully the patch will be out soon.

[krieg63]

and what about anarchic charge rule? does the command control will be more important?

[TheGrayMouser]

So far, I like everything I've seen. It's really going to change the game in many ways, such as punishing all skirmisher armies.

Deeter

Why do you think it will punish skirmisher armies? (also why do you think they should be punished) Seems they will still have the #'s in lights and will be able to wipe out a non skirmishers armies lights that much quicker
(also with double moves they will be theoretically quicker on the move...)

I do like that lights have a chance to actually catch other lights though, just hope its not too random but has a logical mechanism.

[deeter]

Skirmisher armies often get the iniative so they move seccond. That gives HF armies a chance to grab more of the map at the outset. I think skirmisher armies should be punished because the game up to now rewards hordes of poor slingers, etc., and besides that they make for boring games of attrition. Just the fact that they evade facing the wrong way makes it worth driving them off because they can't magically pin you in melee the next turn.

As for anarchy, it seems less obnoxious although I still think it should happen at the beginning of the turn.

Deeter

[TheGrayMouser]

Skirmisher armies often get the iniative so they move seccond. That gives HF armies a chance to grab more of the map at the outset. I think skirmisher armies should be punished because the game up to now rewards hordes of poor slingers, etc., and besides that they make for boring games of attrition. Just the fact that they evade facing the wrong way makes it worth driving them off because they can't magically pin you in melee the next turn.

As for anarchy, it seems less obnoxious although I still think it should happen at the beginning of the turn.

Deeter

I agree with the hordes of cheap slingers being an issue, but only because they can "catch' superior lights..
Guess i will have to wait for the patch regarding the new features, trying to think it thru to imagine the effects but it doesnt seam it will reduce the overall effectiveness of light armies, just change the dynamics a little...
Sadly, I liked the anarchy the way it was pre 1.26, (I might be the only one!)

[deeter]

You are the onlly one. It still happens, just not at an insane rate.

As for skirms, having them face the wrong way after evading has large implications. Pre-patch, you send out your average LF to chase off the poor LF screen and they could be on you the next turn. At least now it would take two turns and a lot can happen in two turns. Also, those evading shooty cav won't be able to charge next turn. This is good while we wait for a really fix for skirmishers (i.s. a doctrine setting) but tha's along way off.

Deeter

[batesmotel]

Skirmisher armies often get the iniative so they move seccond. That gives HF armies a chance to grab more of the map at the outset. I think skirmisher armies should be punished because the game up to now rewards hordes of poor slingers, etc., and besides that they make for boring games of attrition. Just the fact that they evade facing the wrong way makes it worth driving them off because they can't magically pin you in melee the next turn.

As for anarchy, it seems less obnoxious although I still think it should happen at the beginning of the turn.

Deeter

Skirmishers ending facing away is a great improvement so they can't immediately charge back in. It's now possible to usefully drive off the opposing skirmisher screen if you have better light troops without immediately having your light troops fall victim to rope a dope.

The problem with doing anarchy at the beginning of the turn is that it makes shock troops too uncontrollable (or too predictable if the ones that are going to impetuously charged are just marked). The intent of the anarchy rules is not to make shock troops uncontrollable if you are using them in their intended role of getting directly into contact with the enemy. What anarchy is intended to do is to make it a bit risky to keep the shock troops hovering at the edge of the combat without being willing to commit them directly. If anarchy charges occur immediately at the start of the turn, it means that they will engage in way where you have next to no control as they did in the original anarchy rules. Too often I've moved lance armed mount troops or heavy chariots into a position to deliver an attack on my next turn and then seen them go charging off in random directions, or having the rear rank troops charge through the front or otherwise essentially be completely uncontrollable. (It was a bit less of an issue with shock foot since normally they won't have as many potential targets within range to have the computer arbitrarily choose between.) Alternatively, if the shock troops that will anarchy charge are just marked at the start of the turn, that you get an indication of which troops you need to charge in and which ones you can safely hold back therefore eliminating the uncertainty that should be involved when making the decision to charge or not.

One change that would be nice would be to have a "hold" order that you could give a BG to indicate that it should just remain in place for this turn. This would allow you to react to support it or to fill in the hole in your line if that BG does make an anarchy charge.

Chris

[ianiow]

I'm not sure if it was me just being incredibly unobservant, but were pre beta British LChariots able to shoot javelins? Cos they can now.

[batesmotel]

I'm not sure if it was me just being incredibly unobservant, but were pre beta British LChariots able to shoot javelins? Cos they can now.

Sounds like a bug. They should only be armed with light spear, not with javelins.

Chris

[batesmotel]

I just double checked in a couple scenarios (Mons Graupius and another) and it doesn't look like the LCh can shoot. They aren't marked with the bow icon to indicate they are missile troops. What scenario did you see this in? It sounds likely to be a specific scenario OB that is off rather than a general problem with British LCh (which I believe aren't covered in the DAG yet). (As a counter scenario OB problem, I just noticed that Alexander's East Asian javelinmen LF don't have Javelins in the Hydaspes scenario. Fixed for the next update.)

Chris

[ianiow]

I'm not sure if it was me just being incredibly unobservant, but were pre beta British LChariots able to shoot javelins? Cos they can now.

Sounds like a bug. They should only be armed with light spear, not with javelins.

Chris

Thats a pity, I think it would have suited the British Chariots style of fighting rather well.

If a dev is interested, it is in the Caer Caradoc scenario, they are armed with Lightspear and javelins.

[batesmotel]

I'm not sure if it was me just being incredibly unobservant, but were pre beta British LChariots able to shoot javelins? Cos they can now.

Sounds like a bug. They should only be armed with light spear, not with javelins.

Chris

Thats a pity, I think it would have suited the British Chariots style of fighting rather well.

If a dev is interested, it is in the Caer Caradoc scenario, they are armed with Lightspear and javelins.

It is a design decision of the TT rules that both cavalry and LCh armed with spears should be treated as having them to use as a close combat weapon rather than as a missile weapon. I often wish that my Late Achaemenid cavalry with light spear was also treated as armed with javelins so they could do some shooting as well as just looking vaguely dangerous when facing heavier troops .

Chris

[keithmartinsmith]

Lch cannot shoot in any of the army lists but in some user submitted scenario's all sorts of weapon changes have taken place so some do get javelins. Up to the scenario designer. Keith

[ianiow]

I often wish that my Late Achaemenid cavalry with light spear was also treated as armed with javelins so they could do some shooting as well as just looking vaguely dangerous when facing heavier troops .

Hey, "vaguely dangerous" is my middle name.

[MesaDon]

I enjoy the update and would like it "official" at least up to 1.2.8. I think the problems listed about can probably wait till the next update. as nothing major seems to need to be drastically fixed immediately. Maybe I am just tired of bouncing between a laptop and an eye killing 10 inch netbook and would like to go back to one computer.

[deeter]

The best thing about the patch is that they included my Gaza scenario. Just be forewarned that I forgot to change the Seleucid army name to Antigonid. Can this be fixed?

Deeter