Alternative veiw of the battle of Laupen

[gozerius]

Although the Swiss list covers the Swiss Confederation from 1300 to 1500, after reading Delbrueck's admittedly conjectural description of the battle, I wonder if using the German City Leagues list might be more appropriate for the Bernese at Laupen. A few points. The Forest Cantons numbered only about 1000 out of a force of 6000+. Their behavior in the battle, holding off the mounted attack of the Fribourg allied mounted nobles, definitely demonstrates their superiority. However, the Bernese were said to have had @2000 flee into the woods on the approach of the Fribourger forces. Also, the Bernese were a very stratified society, whose nobility and patricians were recognized by the Forest Cantons as worthy of respect, while the ordinary guildsmen were shown little regard. I see the Forest Cantons as an allied contingent to the Bernese "German City" army. This would allow the wealthier Bernese to be graded as either armored halbardiers, or spearmen, or even as Konstaflers, or mercenary or feudal men at arms, dismounted as heavy armored heavy weapon. The guildsmen would then be protected defensive spear or halbardiers.

[Sarmaticus]

However, the Bernese were said to have had @2000 flee into the woods on the approach of the Fribourger forces. Also, the Bernese were a very stratified society, whose nobility and patricians were recognized by the Forest Cantons as worthy of respect, while the ordinary guildsmen were shown little regard.

Wouldn't a fair proportion of the Bernese be countrymen and oberlanders rather than guildsmen?

[gozerius]

Call them what you will. My main thrust is the variable quality of the force. The Forest Canton troops were veiwed by both sides to be the best on the field, but they represented less than %20 of the Bernese force. A third of the Bernese fled from the field before the battle had even been joined, although some later rallied.